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foreign

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[Music]

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Air Forces has announced that applying

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disc has been found and is now in the

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possession of the army

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game is rigged change the game game

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changer I occasionally think how quickly

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our difference is worldwide would vanish

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if we were facing an alien threat from

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outside this work

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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this is Fade to Black with your host

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Jimmy Church on the game changer Radio

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Network

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[Music]

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good evening Fade to Black how you doing

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today is uh today is Tuesday

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December 6th 2022 and our guest tonight

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is David marlar he is you know I just

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call him the historian he's a UFO

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historian he's been writing and

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researching the subject of UFOs for a

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very long time started with mufon all

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the way back in 1990 as a field

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investigator a field investigator

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trainee actually and has moved on to

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State section director as well as

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Illinois state director he is currently

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an independent UFO researcher and of

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course an author and runs a pretty cool

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joint there in Albuquerque New Mexico

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and I would like to welcome back to fade

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to black David marlar David welcome

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Jimmy it's great to see you again great

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to be with you it's uh it's it's great

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to be with you David and uh we've got a

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a packed uh conversation tonight and I

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do want to jump straight into it but

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here's uh here's actually where I want

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to start off

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um your uh we're going to discuss uh the

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recent press release and and the media

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and stuff

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um and what is impressive about that is

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your uh your your document collection

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and and the digitizing and everything

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else and the format of it and you're

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sitting in front of a green screen that

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represents

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um everything and uh but the green

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screen looks really good it's it's lit

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up really well

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if only it were a green screen uh this

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is the new addition that we put on the

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house back in 2017 to accommodate the

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growing collection and this is just one

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small part of it prove it oh let's we'll

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walk over here

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okay all right all right all right I'm

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humbled I'm humbled

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um and and and I I did that for a reason

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um that is an awful lot of material and

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uh I I like the the bones of this

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conversation is that room that you're

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sitting in it's it's incredible

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um is is is it something that started

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off with like one single document and do

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you remember uh when it all started well

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you mentioned in 1990 getting actively

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involved in UFOs uh rather naively I I

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went to the local libraries thinking

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well if I'm going to be an investigator

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I really need to read up on the subject

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and so I went to several local libraries

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and I think it really spoke to the

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naivety of myself with regard to the

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subject uh the local libraries either

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had uh very few if any UFO books and so

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again on a very small scale I thought

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well if I'm going to have a UFO library

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or go to a UFO Library I'm gonna have to

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create one on my own and it started as a

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little small bookshelf in my living room

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and it grew to another bookshelf and

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another bookshelf and another bookshelf

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and over time obviously as you know

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Jimmy networking with various

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researchers in this field networking is

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essential and as a result of that over

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the years many of the senior researchers

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when I got involved were getting an ill

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health or we're getting ready to pass

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away and a lot of what I have around me

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are from derived from collections of

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researchers that are no longer with us

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like

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um not not a number Rose way but if you

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know what I mean like uh uh What uh what

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research was donated to you from whom

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well uh Lou Farish who hosted the Ozark

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UFO conference in Eureka Springs

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Arkansas for those that have been around

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a long time they're familiar with that

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conference and I've spoken there many

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many years uh over the last 20 years or

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so now and uh Lou was a historian wrote

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a lot of great articles for fate

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magazine going back to the 1960s uh he

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had a huge collection and when he was in

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hospice when he was dying of cancer I

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visited him and we had known each other

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for many years prior to that and when I

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left unbeknownst to me he told a friend

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of his Jerry Blackburn he goes when I

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pass I want to make sure Dave gets my

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collection because he's doing good

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historical research and that's just one

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of the collections another collection

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from Arkansas as well is Mr Bill Pitts

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who hosted the very uh early UFO

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conference in Arkansas saw the Fort

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Smith UFO conference way back in 1975

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and so Bill had a legacy had a huge

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collection and then some items just

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piecemeal here and there Jimmy uh a lot

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of Blue Book material uh there was a

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collection that was discovered uh from

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Lieutenant Carmen Morano who was one of

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the last staff members of Project Blue

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Book when it shut down in December 69.

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uh off camera I have about 33 filing

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cabinets filled with UFO history one of

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those filing cabinets is filled with

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original Project Blue Book material and

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really one of the biggest additions uh I

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serve as the official archivist for the

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center for UFO studies and in November

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of 2020 I had the historic nightcap

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kufos case File collection sent here and

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literally thousands of historic Case

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Files original Case Files going back to

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the early years and even a smaller group

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called CSI New York not the TV show but

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an early UFO group called CSI New York

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uh civilian saucer intelligence and they

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had many early UFO reports and

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intermixed with the nicap kufos files

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are Dr J Allen heineck's original

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Project Blue Book files

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and uh I have been talking about uh uh

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heinek a lot lately because

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um I got uh a copy I got it last year of

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his 1977 you know report on UFOs right

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uh the Project Blue Book uh uh report

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and that for 1977

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David that book is as relevant today as

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when it was written in 1977.

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um it's an incredible incredible read

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and some of the things that we are going

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through today

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um Not only was he going through the

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very same

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um you know you have the the diplomacy

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and the politics and the military

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but the civilian the media and

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everything but um it was what he was

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going through and and the frustrations

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and the struggles and I I you would have

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you would have thought that that book

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was written last month absolutely I mean

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some of the situations are very similar

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and the information is very similar uh I

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was just contacted by someone today from

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the aiaa the American Institute of

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Aeronautics and astronautics and just

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recently within the last month they've

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decided that they're going to start

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looking at the UF UFO or UAP subject and

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I just was contacted this morning by an

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individual stating that they're very

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encouraged by the history that we're

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collecting both myself and my colleagues

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and look forward to collaborating and

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sharing information and the one thing

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that I emphasize time and time again in

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lectures I just wrapped up a lecture

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series across the country as well as

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Nova Scotia I had the opportunity to go

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up there and

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um you know the history that we have

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provides context for what's being

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reported today and I've been making this

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statement for a long time

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December 2017 with the New York Times

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article obviously a game-changing moment

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in the field right and we've seen so

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many things that have been born out of

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that as far as the house hearings the

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Pentagon UFO report the pending report

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that we're waiting on uh that's supposed

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to go to Congress but one of the things

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that I find fascinating about that is

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the narrative is very tightly scripted

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2004 moving forward

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they haven't really delved into the

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history however the National Defense

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authorization act the draft that we see

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currently that hopefully Biden will be

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signing in the next few weeks

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allows for Provisions for them to For

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the First Time start officially looking

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at the history and so I feel that the

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history that I've collected as well as

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my archivist and historian colleagues uh

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may be tapped by these by these agencies

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may be tapped by members of official

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dumb uh they need to be educated on the

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history a lot of the case files that we

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have civilian Case Files they don't have

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because they haven't been digitized yet

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during covid we've been actively working

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on trying to get these Case Files

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digitized so we can afford them to a

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wider audience uh worldwide but we're

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still in the process of digitizing these

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it's a laborious process destapling

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removing rusted paper clips uh re-gluing

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old news clippings to the backing of

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sheets and my colleague and friend Barry

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Greenwood's done the Lion's Share of

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work on that over the last few years and

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and you have to you know make it

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searchable and usable in the digital age

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and we've had a number of people reach

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out to us literally just in the last

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couple weeks uh since we mentioned our

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new organization which we'll talk about

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uh a number of individuals have reached

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out that are involved in database

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creation Data Mining and data file

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creation so I think we're going to have

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some really nice Professional Resources

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that we can draw from people that have

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these skill sets that are interested in

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the subject and for the first time

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didn't realize how much history we're

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actually sitting on

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yeah you know to make it searchable

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keywords search words organize index all

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of that lots of great software uh to to

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get that stuff done because everybody is

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doing the same thing it doesn't matter

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if you're in sports or medicine

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there are file cabinets that need to be

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digitized you still have to digitize it

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definitely go through the process a

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number of people have said well you need

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to be digitizing that it's like well

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first off we are digitizing it but I

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would argue the first step is the

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centralization of all this historical

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material because right now it's peppered

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throughout the country there's a number

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of key researchers who I'm sure will

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talk about uh during the course of the

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show that have some incredible

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collections all their own that that

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rival this if not dwarf this and uh

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there's also a number of individual

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collections just this year Jimmy in

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doing my lecture series across the

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country I've had about 10 to 12 other

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researchers come up to to me aging

276
00:12:14,990 --> 00:12:12,660
researchers stating I want my collection

277
00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:15,000
to go to you and even one told me I need

278
00:12:18,889 --> 00:12:16,560
your contact information I'm putting you

279
00:12:22,670 --> 00:12:18,899
in my will so if anything happens to me

280
00:12:25,850 --> 00:12:22,680
my UFO files go to you and so it's just

281
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:25,860
this this constant gravitational pull to

282
00:12:29,810 --> 00:12:28,079
Albuquerque here where we're continuing

283
00:12:32,210 --> 00:12:29,820
to get information in fact

284
00:12:35,210 --> 00:12:32,220
um as we speak in Yorkshire England

285
00:12:37,970 --> 00:12:35,220
there is a palette of UFO material that

286
00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:37,980
belongs to Philip mantle and Philip uh

287
00:12:43,250 --> 00:12:40,560
over a year ago promised me he he said I

288
00:12:46,190 --> 00:12:43,260
want to send my material to you and so

289
00:12:48,110 --> 00:12:46,200
we have a palette of uh British UFO

290
00:12:50,410 --> 00:12:48,120
material that's going to be coming here

291
00:12:52,190 --> 00:12:50,420
that's gonna be tasty stuff right there

292
00:12:54,530 --> 00:12:52,200
and we have a lot of international

293
00:12:56,870 --> 00:12:54,540
material as well I should add that in

294
00:12:59,870 --> 00:12:56,880
May of this year I went to uh Phoenix

295
00:13:02,690 --> 00:12:59,880
Arizona and uh rented a U-Haul truck

296
00:13:05,269 --> 00:13:02,700
loaded it up and I have uh Antonio's my

297
00:13:07,970 --> 00:13:05,279
friend and colleague Antonio venez's uh

298
00:13:09,590 --> 00:13:07,980
foreign UFO collection in fact up here

299
00:13:11,930 --> 00:13:09,600
the very top shelf you can see all these

300
00:13:14,870 --> 00:13:11,940
books lined up those are all foreign

301
00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:14,880
language books uh Czechoslovakian Polish

302
00:13:21,889 --> 00:13:18,240
Russian Japanese German French Spanish

303
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:21,899
Italian uh Portuguese uh some Portuguese

304
00:13:27,350 --> 00:13:24,240
material in there as well we have a wide

305
00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:27,360
array of UFO files and books and

306
00:13:32,389 --> 00:13:29,519
journals uh that are in foreign

307
00:13:34,970 --> 00:13:32,399
languages so it's a really well-rounded

308
00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:34,980
uh collection and people have often uh

309
00:13:38,329 --> 00:13:36,720
kind of told me well do you read

310
00:13:40,190 --> 00:13:38,339
Portuguese do you read Spanish it's like

311
00:13:42,530 --> 00:13:40,200
I don't need to but researchers come

312
00:13:44,210 --> 00:13:42,540
here and as if to demonstrate that fact

313
00:13:45,949 --> 00:13:44,220
I just had the Albuquerque Journal here

314
00:13:49,190 --> 00:13:45,959
doing an article just less than a week

315
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:49,200
ago and the photographer that was here

316
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:52,560
spoke fluent uh French and so he was

317
00:13:58,009 --> 00:13:54,480
enamored with all of the French material

318
00:14:00,949 --> 00:13:58,019
that he was able to go through here's is

319
00:14:03,850 --> 00:14:00,959
there a point where I mean you almost

320
00:14:08,329 --> 00:14:03,860
can't is there a point where you go

321
00:14:10,490 --> 00:14:08,339
no I I thought he needed well uh you're

322
00:14:12,350 --> 00:14:10,500
actually bringing us up to the situation

323
00:14:14,509 --> 00:14:12,360
that's facing not only myself but my

324
00:14:16,910 --> 00:14:14,519
colleagues who I mentioned

325
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:16,920
um I am the youngest in this small group

326
00:14:20,090 --> 00:14:18,720
of historians and archivists in the

327
00:14:23,090 --> 00:14:20,100
country that have collected a lot of

328
00:14:24,769 --> 00:14:23,100
this material and uh in addition to

329
00:14:26,810 --> 00:14:24,779
facing the fact that they're getting

330
00:14:29,210 --> 00:14:26,820
older in some cases their health is

331
00:14:31,730 --> 00:14:29,220
starting to decline slowly uh they're

332
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:31,740
faced with a a very uh practical problem

333
00:14:36,650 --> 00:14:34,560
which you just touched on uh absence of

334
00:14:39,290 --> 00:14:36,660
empty square footage to accommodate

335
00:14:42,590 --> 00:14:39,300
additional collections yes and and so

336
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:42,600
all of us have operated uh basically as

337
00:14:46,850 --> 00:14:44,399
a network of historians and archive is

338
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:46,860
sharing information over the decades but

339
00:14:50,990 --> 00:14:49,199
it's been operating based on a

340
00:14:53,389 --> 00:14:51,000
home-based archive like what you see

341
00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:53,399
behind me and off off camera here as

342
00:15:00,769 --> 00:14:57,120
well and so recently uh in the last year

343
00:15:02,750 --> 00:15:00,779
we decided collectively uh we simply

344
00:15:04,970 --> 00:15:02,760
cannot maintain a home-based archive

345
00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:04,980
that it has literally to your to your

346
00:15:10,670 --> 00:15:08,160
question outgrown the confines of what

347
00:15:12,889 --> 00:15:10,680
we're doing and so really born out of

348
00:15:15,530 --> 00:15:12,899
necessity we then decided to create a

349
00:15:19,069 --> 00:15:15,540
new non-profit organization predicated

350
00:15:22,069 --> 00:15:19,079
on focusing on the preservation of UFO

351
00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:22,079
history for future generations and so

352
00:15:26,629 --> 00:15:24,000
just in the last couple weeks we we

353
00:15:29,870 --> 00:15:26,639
announced that organization now the

354
00:15:34,610 --> 00:15:29,880
press release uh went out on November

355
00:15:37,009 --> 00:15:34,620
18th correct and uh and how has the

356
00:15:40,509 --> 00:15:37,019
reaction been to that I watched the

357
00:15:43,970 --> 00:15:40,519
media run with the story right

358
00:15:45,710 --> 00:15:43,980
I don't want to say the word viral but

359
00:15:47,870 --> 00:15:45,720
in this case that's exactly what

360
00:15:50,090 --> 00:15:47,880
happened yeah it actually surpassed

361
00:15:52,069 --> 00:15:50,100
faster expectations we figured we would

362
00:15:54,769 --> 00:15:52,079
Garner some local and maybe Regional

363
00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:54,779
media coverage the Roswell Daily Record

364
00:16:00,050 --> 00:15:57,600
my friend Toby there uh who's a a

365
00:16:03,110 --> 00:16:00,060
reporter and writer he did an

366
00:16:05,569 --> 00:16:03,120
outstanding article on our efforts and

367
00:16:07,970 --> 00:16:05,579
uh I think to his surprise as well as

368
00:16:11,650 --> 00:16:07,980
mine the Associated Press picked up the

369
00:16:14,329 --> 00:16:11,660
story and as you can appreciate Jimmy

370
00:16:16,430 --> 00:16:14,339
yeah yeah we went out worldwide in fact

371
00:16:18,350 --> 00:16:16,440
U.S news and World Report even picked up

372
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:18,360
the story tell everybody what the

373
00:16:24,170 --> 00:16:21,600
announcement was yeah so again we were

374
00:16:26,329 --> 00:16:24,180
all acting as a collective of individual

375
00:16:28,730 --> 00:16:26,339
historians and archivists we decided

376
00:16:30,769 --> 00:16:28,740
that as we started to see the government

377
00:16:32,329 --> 00:16:30,779
starting to broach the subject of

378
00:16:35,930 --> 00:16:32,339
possibly looking at the history we

379
00:16:38,329 --> 00:16:35,940
thought we need to just be more than you

380
00:16:40,730 --> 00:16:38,339
know here's Dave here's Jan here's Barry

381
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:40,740
we needed to put a face to the

382
00:16:45,230 --> 00:16:42,959
organization a face to the initiative

383
00:16:48,530 --> 00:16:45,240
and really an umbrella term that

384
00:16:50,509 --> 00:16:48,540
encapsulates all of it so uh on the 18th

385
00:16:52,910 --> 00:16:50,519
of November of this year we announced

386
00:16:55,310 --> 00:16:52,920
the National UFO historical records

387
00:16:57,790 --> 00:16:55,320
Center which we hope and envision it to

388
00:17:00,710 --> 00:16:57,800
be the National Archives of UFO research

389
00:17:01,749 --> 00:17:00,720
the largest archive here in the United

390
00:17:03,769 --> 00:17:01,759
States

391
00:17:05,870 --> 00:17:03,779
centralizing all of these independent

392
00:17:08,210 --> 00:17:05,880
Collections and this isn't just

393
00:17:10,669 --> 00:17:08,220
theoretical uh the reason that we did

394
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:10,679
this is because uh the individuals that

395
00:17:15,530 --> 00:17:12,720
have helped me with this Jan Aldridge

396
00:17:18,169 --> 00:17:15,540
senior historian on the UFO subject

397
00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:18,179
Barry Greenwood another senior historian

398
00:17:24,110 --> 00:17:20,400
each one of these gentlemen their homes

399
00:17:26,510 --> 00:17:24,120
are literally filled with historical UFO

400
00:17:27,770 --> 00:17:26,520
information government documents news

401
00:17:30,289 --> 00:17:27,780
clippings

402
00:17:31,970 --> 00:17:30,299
civilian UFO Case Files I mean the list

403
00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:31,980
goes on I mean every medium you can

404
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:34,080
possibly think of their home is a museum

405
00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:36,480
each one of theirs they have already

406
00:17:41,450 --> 00:17:38,520
indicated that they want their

407
00:17:43,310 --> 00:17:41,460
collections to come here so my

408
00:17:45,049 --> 00:17:43,320
collection Jan Aldridge's collection

409
00:17:48,289 --> 00:17:45,059
Barry Greenwood's collection in addition

410
00:17:50,930 --> 00:17:48,299
Rob swayatec uh who is on the board of

411
00:17:52,490 --> 00:17:50,940
mufon he wanted to be part of this and I

412
00:17:54,350 --> 00:17:52,500
think one of the key players that we

413
00:17:55,789 --> 00:17:54,360
have is Dr Mark rodiger who's the

414
00:17:59,270 --> 00:17:55,799
international director for the center

415
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:59,280
for UFO studies and Mark really saw

416
00:18:03,890 --> 00:18:01,679
value in US trying to centralize all

417
00:18:05,570 --> 00:18:03,900
this historical material and another

418
00:18:07,850 --> 00:18:05,580
person that many people don't know by

419
00:18:10,730 --> 00:18:07,860
name uh it's not uh one of the more

420
00:18:12,650 --> 00:18:10,740
common names is Mr Rod Dyke and Rod

421
00:18:16,250 --> 00:18:12,660
lives up uh in the Seattle Washington

422
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:16,260
area Rod has been an active archivist

423
00:18:21,890 --> 00:18:19,440
and collector regarding UFO history in

424
00:18:24,650 --> 00:18:21,900
fact back in the late 1960s he founded

425
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:24,660
the the UFO news clipping service which

426
00:18:29,270 --> 00:18:26,640
was one of the best conduits for UFO

427
00:18:31,850 --> 00:18:29,280
information prior to the internet and

428
00:18:33,950 --> 00:18:31,860
Rod started it Lou Farish ran it for

429
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:33,960
many years as editor and I had the the

430
00:18:38,990 --> 00:18:36,240
honor of uh being the editor for the

431
00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:39,000
last three years of the publication and

432
00:18:43,850 --> 00:18:41,039
so Rod has a vast collection and just to

433
00:18:46,430 --> 00:18:43,860
drop a few names he has the Donald Kehoe

434
00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:46,440
personal files and archive and he also

435
00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:48,480
has the Richard Hall personal files and

436
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:50,400
archives from nightcap

437
00:18:55,970 --> 00:18:53,280
if we can bring those files with the

438
00:18:58,610 --> 00:18:55,980
nycap Case Files we have here we've

439
00:18:59,870 --> 00:18:58,620
we've reunified all of that material and

440
00:19:02,210 --> 00:18:59,880
brought it back together it's almost

441
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:02,220
like you know breathing life into

442
00:19:07,789 --> 00:19:04,320
nightcap again after all these decades

443
00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:07,799
and so it's such a pleasure in fact uh

444
00:19:12,169 --> 00:19:10,080
Jimmy when The nightcap case files were

445
00:19:13,669 --> 00:19:12,179
delivered here Rod reached out to me and

446
00:19:15,110 --> 00:19:13,679
said you know I think it's wonderful

447
00:19:16,850 --> 00:19:15,120
that the files are there that people

448
00:19:18,049 --> 00:19:16,860
will have more access to them that

449
00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:18,059
you're going to be using them for

450
00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:20,460
research purposes you know I've got

451
00:19:25,850 --> 00:19:23,280
boxes of reel-to-reel tapes in fact I

452
00:19:27,950 --> 00:19:25,860
have one right here uh all of these

453
00:19:31,610 --> 00:19:27,960
reel-to-reel tapes going back to the

454
00:19:34,430 --> 00:19:31,620
1950s this one's from 1958. this is a

455
00:19:37,250 --> 00:19:34,440
radio broadcast and it had call-in uh

456
00:19:39,970 --> 00:19:37,260
listeners describing UFO sightings that

457
00:19:43,850 --> 00:19:39,980
they had had recently and we had over

458
00:19:46,010 --> 00:19:43,860
250 of those reel to Reels which during

459
00:19:47,930 --> 00:19:46,020
covet lockdown I took the liberty Jimmy

460
00:19:50,330 --> 00:19:47,940
of having nothing but free time after

461
00:19:52,850 --> 00:19:50,340
work uh and I digitize and digital

462
00:19:55,610 --> 00:19:52,860
remastered all of those recordings and

463
00:19:57,590 --> 00:19:55,620
so we now have those preserved and when

464
00:19:59,390 --> 00:19:57,600
we digitize we always keep the originals

465
00:20:01,610 --> 00:19:59,400
we always like to retain The Originals

466
00:20:04,970 --> 00:20:01,620
if ever we need to go back to those so

467
00:20:06,529 --> 00:20:04,980
we have those now and many of them are

468
00:20:08,210 --> 00:20:06,539
very small little reel-to-reel

469
00:20:11,570 --> 00:20:08,220
recordings they were just interviews

470
00:20:13,730 --> 00:20:11,580
between witness and interviewer after I

471
00:20:16,610 --> 00:20:13,740
digitized those and there were dozens of

472
00:20:19,190 --> 00:20:16,620
them I was able to go into the files and

473
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:19,200
find the written narrative by the

474
00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:21,840
witness and now have the audio recording

475
00:20:26,450 --> 00:20:24,240
so we've brought this back together this

476
00:20:30,350 --> 00:20:26,460
is what's crazy you're now a digital

477
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:30,360
audio expert I'm you know the skill sets

478
00:20:35,690 --> 00:20:32,640
you learn as as you delve into UFO

479
00:20:38,450 --> 00:20:35,700
history And archiving yeah well people

480
00:20:40,190 --> 00:20:38,460
think that this stuff just happens you

481
00:20:44,270 --> 00:20:40,200
know it's just oh yeah I'm just going to

482
00:20:47,770 --> 00:20:44,280
digital no first off everybody needs to

483
00:20:53,470 --> 00:20:47,780
listen to what I'm saying very closely

484
00:20:57,049 --> 00:20:53,480
you can't speed up the recording

485
00:20:59,390 --> 00:20:57,059
it has to play at real time absolutely

486
00:21:02,690 --> 00:20:59,400
and and that goes through the converters

487
00:21:06,350 --> 00:21:02,700
and and heads to a computer eventually

488
00:21:10,909 --> 00:21:06,360
and builds the file but the the the real

489
00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:10,919
the real uh is is in real time hours and

490
00:21:16,310 --> 00:21:13,440
hours and hours and hours you know if

491
00:21:19,370 --> 00:21:16,320
that's a 30 minute uh reel you're doing

492
00:21:21,409 --> 00:21:19,380
it at 30 minutes if it's an hour it's an

493
00:21:23,210 --> 00:21:21,419
hour and sometimes it's even longer

494
00:21:26,150 --> 00:21:23,220
depending on if it's on the slow speed

495
00:21:28,130 --> 00:21:26,160
slow and see but that's the other so now

496
00:21:31,130 --> 00:21:28,140
you've got to learn about tape speeds

497
00:21:33,409 --> 00:21:31,140
absolutely and uh and everything else so

498
00:21:35,870 --> 00:21:33,419
yeah and literally right off camera here

499
00:21:38,450 --> 00:21:35,880
Jimmy is my studio table I have two

500
00:21:41,210 --> 00:21:38,460
dedicated systems each computer system

501
00:21:43,370 --> 00:21:41,220
has a reel-to-reel player connected to

502
00:21:45,770 --> 00:21:43,380
it we have cassette player connected to

503
00:21:48,590 --> 00:21:45,780
it and micro cassette connected to it as

504
00:21:51,049 --> 00:21:48,600
well as DVD and a VHS player connected

505
00:21:52,730 --> 00:21:51,059
to each one so any of these mediums that

506
00:21:55,070 --> 00:21:52,740
we receive in these collections we can

507
00:21:56,690 --> 00:21:55,080
now digitize yeah that's awesome that's

508
00:22:00,130 --> 00:21:56,700
totally awesome

509
00:22:04,430 --> 00:22:00,140
um now here's the thing though

510
00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:04,440
uh just coming off of the UFO hearings

511
00:22:11,090 --> 00:22:08,460
yeah and and listening to what's going

512
00:22:13,070 --> 00:22:11,100
on let's put the UAP task force report

513
00:22:15,230 --> 00:22:13,080
to the side for a second I want to come

514
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:15,240
out and address that of course but

515
00:22:19,930 --> 00:22:17,760
listening to the hearings

516
00:22:23,390 --> 00:22:19,940
um some of

517
00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:23,400
the representatives

518
00:22:27,529 --> 00:22:25,440
seem to have

519
00:22:30,289 --> 00:22:27,539
some knowledge

520
00:22:34,010 --> 00:22:30,299
some I'm just saying some the two

521
00:22:36,770 --> 00:22:34,020
witnesses Bray and Moultrie knew nothing

522
00:22:42,289 --> 00:22:36,780
about nothing right no no they didn't

523
00:22:45,830 --> 00:22:42,299
and and it I I don't understand why

524
00:22:49,070 --> 00:22:45,840
um there isn't an interest in getting

525
00:22:52,190 --> 00:22:49,080
outside of the 2004 Nimitz which is okay

526
00:22:54,430 --> 00:22:52,200
that's cool or whatever the reason uh

527
00:22:56,630 --> 00:22:54,440
military and Air Force and navy

528
00:23:01,970 --> 00:22:56,640
interactions okay that's that's all cool

529
00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:01,980
there is so much knowledge out there and

530
00:23:06,110 --> 00:23:04,080
I I'm just wondering when they're gonna

531
00:23:08,510 --> 00:23:06,120
approach somebody and go okay we need to

532
00:23:09,950 --> 00:23:08,520
get educated yeah well I wasn't going to

533
00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:09,960
say anything but since you brought it up

534
00:23:14,930 --> 00:23:12,240
uh I do know a couple people that are

535
00:23:17,090 --> 00:23:14,940
working with members on Capitol Hill and

536
00:23:19,250 --> 00:23:17,100
one of the individuals uh just recently

537
00:23:21,890 --> 00:23:19,260
said he goes I floated two or three

538
00:23:23,450 --> 00:23:21,900
names to them stating you need to

539
00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:23,460
contact these individuals regarding the

540
00:23:27,909 --> 00:23:25,919
history and to my surprise he said yours

541
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:27,919
was one of those names

542
00:23:33,289 --> 00:23:30,960
so we're hoping that you know with the

543
00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:33,299
history that we have the knowledge uh

544
00:23:36,890 --> 00:23:35,280
the materials the original materials we

545
00:23:38,690 --> 00:23:36,900
have and I think that's important these

546
00:23:40,430 --> 00:23:38,700
aren't second hand these are the

547
00:23:42,529 --> 00:23:40,440
original Case Files these are the

548
00:23:44,090 --> 00:23:42,539
original government documents in in many

549
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:44,100
cases

550
00:23:48,289 --> 00:23:46,559
um you know we do have the provenance of

551
00:23:49,789 --> 00:23:48,299
some of this information this just isn't

552
00:23:51,950 --> 00:23:49,799
a bunch of stuff that we pulled off the

553
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:51,960
internet these are the original Source

554
00:23:56,750 --> 00:23:53,760
documents the original Case Files of

555
00:23:58,130 --> 00:23:56,760
some very landmark cases and so if

556
00:24:01,070 --> 00:23:58,140
they're looking for credible information

557
00:24:02,390 --> 00:24:01,080
with proper documentation I would argue

558
00:24:04,610 --> 00:24:02,400
it doesn't get much better than this

559
00:24:07,010 --> 00:24:04,620
there's even

560
00:24:09,710 --> 00:24:07,020
um and I know that Project Blue Book has

561
00:24:14,510 --> 00:24:09,720
got you know a bit of a black eye and

562
00:24:18,110 --> 00:24:14,520
and things and and I I get that but if

563
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:18,120
you look at the project itself but the

564
00:24:23,690 --> 00:24:20,640
cases that they were that's a different

565
00:24:26,210 --> 00:24:23,700
situation here how how blue book was

566
00:24:27,549 --> 00:24:26,220
looked at and was treated and

567
00:24:30,110 --> 00:24:27,559
um turned into misinformation

568
00:24:32,810 --> 00:24:30,120
disinformation I I get that part of it

569
00:24:34,909 --> 00:24:32,820
but if you if you dig deep and you go

570
00:24:37,310 --> 00:24:34,919
into the actual cases that they were

571
00:24:40,250 --> 00:24:37,320
looking at and certainly with the

572
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:40,260
Department of Defense and odni there are

573
00:24:46,430 --> 00:24:43,200
some military cases in there uh that

574
00:24:49,789 --> 00:24:46,440
defy explanation going back to 1950 51

575
00:24:51,470 --> 00:24:49,799
52 absolutely where they've got radar

576
00:24:53,330 --> 00:24:51,480
data and confirmation of these craft

577
00:24:55,570 --> 00:24:53,340
going 1800 miles an hour when the

578
00:24:59,149 --> 00:24:55,580
fastest plane in the world was you know

579
00:25:01,310 --> 00:24:59,159
450 miles an hour absolutely yeah we

580
00:25:05,390 --> 00:25:01,320
have a number of original files uh here

581
00:25:06,950 --> 00:25:05,400
I mean this is uh one from 1949 and this

582
00:25:08,990 --> 00:25:06,960
is from the Department of the Air Force

583
00:25:11,630 --> 00:25:09,000
and it's signed by the original base

584
00:25:14,750 --> 00:25:11,640
commander uh so these are the original

585
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:14,760
documents which which case is that this

586
00:25:21,529 --> 00:25:17,120
one is uh from Lexington Nebraska

587
00:25:24,169 --> 00:25:21,539
September 26 1949 and this unclassified

588
00:25:27,409 --> 00:25:24,179
document is uh the subject is

589
00:25:30,890 --> 00:25:27,419
unconventional aircraft

590
00:25:32,510 --> 00:25:30,900
one at the Trout Farm uh this one I

591
00:25:33,950 --> 00:25:32,520
believe let me see I just randomly

592
00:25:35,570 --> 00:25:33,960
pulled a couple of these this one I

593
00:25:37,970 --> 00:25:35,580
don't think is the trout farm this is a

594
00:25:40,970 --> 00:25:37,980
separate one okay this one's a fairly

595
00:25:43,490 --> 00:25:40,980
lengthy one uh and here we have the

596
00:25:45,529 --> 00:25:43,500
sketches of the the actual object itself

597
00:25:49,130 --> 00:25:45,539
I don't know if you can see that yeah I

598
00:25:50,570 --> 00:25:49,140
can oh there we go but these are these

599
00:25:52,549 --> 00:25:50,580
are pulled from the original military

600
00:25:54,890 --> 00:25:52,559
files and you can even see the holes

601
00:25:57,230 --> 00:25:54,900
they would always double hole staple or

602
00:25:58,430 --> 00:25:57,240
punch those up there right you can kind

603
00:26:01,510 --> 00:25:58,440
of see some of that right there it's

604
00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:01,520
really nice and you can see unclassified

605
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:04,320
and that you know and so if they want to

606
00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:07,200
stick with military stuff and not jump

607
00:26:12,169 --> 00:26:09,840
into the civilian World got it that's

608
00:26:13,610 --> 00:26:12,179
what that's my point and Jimmy I'm glad

609
00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:13,620
you bring up Blue Book because quite

610
00:26:16,909 --> 00:26:15,360
often people immediately just throw the

611
00:26:18,289 --> 00:26:16,919
baby out with the bath water but this is

612
00:26:19,730 --> 00:26:18,299
the important thing and again we have

613
00:26:22,850 --> 00:26:19,740
hundreds if not thousands of original

614
00:26:24,529 --> 00:26:22,860
Blue Book files here and what's unique

615
00:26:27,769 --> 00:26:24,539
about those is not only do we have the

616
00:26:29,870 --> 00:26:27,779
original files we have Dr Jalen heineck

617
00:26:32,690 --> 00:26:29,880
because that's who they belong to his

618
00:26:35,330 --> 00:26:32,700
personal commentary and thoughts and

619
00:26:37,070 --> 00:26:35,340
it's kind of a a false belief that it

620
00:26:38,570 --> 00:26:37,080
wasn't until later in life that heinek

621
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:38,580
really started to come around with

622
00:26:42,110 --> 00:26:41,039
regard to the UFO subject Case Files

623
00:26:45,169 --> 00:26:42,120
that I've looked at that are actually

624
00:26:47,990 --> 00:26:45,179
here on file that people can see going

625
00:26:50,750 --> 00:26:48,000
back to the mid late 1950s

626
00:26:52,730 --> 00:26:50,760
as early as that time frame you can see

627
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:52,740
where the official explanation was ball

628
00:26:57,649 --> 00:26:55,440
lightning heineck crosses it out and

629
00:27:01,250 --> 00:26:57,659
underneath and he usually uses red felt

630
00:27:02,830 --> 00:27:01,260
pen he wrote unidentified in uppercase

631
00:27:05,690 --> 00:27:02,840
letters and underlined it three times

632
00:27:07,490 --> 00:27:05,700
and quite often you see him take issue

633
00:27:09,950 --> 00:27:07,500
with the Air Force and again going back

634
00:27:13,010 --> 00:27:09,960
to the 1950s where he would always

635
00:27:15,230 --> 00:27:13,020
abbreviate Air Force as AF why didn't AF

636
00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:15,240
investigators interview the additional

637
00:27:19,789 --> 00:27:17,760
Witnesses in this case why didn't AF

638
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:19,799
investigators obtain the radar data that

639
00:27:25,549 --> 00:27:22,799
was in the report I mean he took serious

640
00:27:28,010 --> 00:27:25,559
issue early on and it was a culmination

641
00:27:30,049 --> 00:27:28,020
of report after report after report

642
00:27:31,610 --> 00:27:30,059
where he's seeing that the important

643
00:27:34,610 --> 00:27:31,620
thing though to to your earlier

644
00:27:36,230 --> 00:27:34,620
statement Jimmy is the fact that you can

645
00:27:38,810 --> 00:27:36,240
throw out the conclusions of Project

646
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:38,820
Blue Book but the UFO reports themselves

647
00:27:44,810 --> 00:27:40,320
are valid

648
00:27:49,450 --> 00:27:44,820
a hundred percent and and I uh going

649
00:27:53,930 --> 00:27:49,460
back and in in heinek's book from 1977.

650
00:27:55,549 --> 00:27:53,940
he he there's probably I I don't know

651
00:27:57,409 --> 00:27:55,559
the count but there's probably a couple

652
00:28:00,649 --> 00:27:57,419
of dozen cases in there that he

653
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:00,659
specifically focuses on and you go and

654
00:28:07,250 --> 00:28:03,360
and you and you read these cases

655
00:28:10,909 --> 00:28:07,260
you're like wait a minute here and and

656
00:28:12,890 --> 00:28:10,919
some of them the reports came in but

657
00:28:15,409 --> 00:28:12,900
there wasn't any follow-up they're in

658
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:15,419
Project Blue Book but there isn't there

659
00:28:20,690 --> 00:28:17,520
isn't anything that goes that goes on

660
00:28:22,970 --> 00:28:20,700
and one of heineck's complaints which is

661
00:28:25,370 --> 00:28:22,980
what we're hearing today

662
00:28:28,310 --> 00:28:25,380
um is that they refuse to apply the

663
00:28:31,010 --> 00:28:28,320
science absolutely and I always say

664
00:28:33,710 --> 00:28:31,020
heineck was a true scientist uh he came

665
00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:33,720
in as a complete skeptic but over the

666
00:28:38,450 --> 00:28:36,000
years over the decades having looked at

667
00:28:40,730 --> 00:28:38,460
the information and waited objectively

668
00:28:42,950 --> 00:28:40,740
he came to the conclusion there appeared

669
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:42,960
to be some type of objective reality to

670
00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:46,080
this and so he was a true scientist went

671
00:28:50,149 --> 00:28:47,760
in skeptical as you should when you

672
00:28:53,210 --> 00:28:50,159
first start looking at something but he

673
00:28:55,850 --> 00:28:53,220
was willing to concede and put aside his

674
00:28:58,909 --> 00:28:55,860
initial uh you know Viewpoint and

675
00:29:00,649 --> 00:28:58,919
perspective he followed the data and he

676
00:29:03,169 --> 00:29:00,659
acknowledged that the data does seem to

677
00:29:06,769 --> 00:29:03,179
speak of something that's real there was

678
00:29:09,549 --> 00:29:06,779
a case out in the Pacific Ocean I don't

679
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:09,559
know if it's Guam or you know but it was

680
00:29:15,890 --> 00:29:12,720
one of the uh one of the Navy Air Force

681
00:29:18,889 --> 00:29:15,900
bases out there and three planes okay

682
00:29:21,169 --> 00:29:18,899
and so the first report comes in it's a

683
00:29:23,870 --> 00:29:21,179
plane that's Landing right

684
00:29:28,430 --> 00:29:23,880
and they go uh okay and and heinek's

685
00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:28,440
reading through the actual statements uh

686
00:29:35,330 --> 00:29:31,440
from uh the pilot reports a light

687
00:29:38,510 --> 00:29:35,340
trailing them and wanted to know from

688
00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:38,520
you know uh flight control you know who

689
00:29:43,730 --> 00:29:41,760
who who this was and it was just unusual

690
00:29:44,750 --> 00:29:43,740
no there's nothing there oh there is

691
00:29:47,149 --> 00:29:44,760
something there we don't know it's

692
00:29:50,090 --> 00:29:47,159
unidentified aircraft they pull off of

693
00:29:53,450 --> 00:29:50,100
the landing and they Circle back behind

694
00:29:56,450 --> 00:29:53,460
now there's three planes all calling in

695
00:30:01,130 --> 00:29:56,460
talking about this bright light that was

696
00:30:05,810 --> 00:30:01,140
now below them right and then appeared

697
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:05,820
to land in the trees so they're circling

698
00:30:09,289 --> 00:30:07,440
and they're talking you know they're

699
00:30:13,010 --> 00:30:09,299
reporting back it's there and then it

700
00:30:17,090 --> 00:30:13,020
takes off right now let's just stop

701
00:30:20,450 --> 00:30:17,100
right there right let's just this isn't

702
00:30:22,750 --> 00:30:20,460
Venus no and it's certainly not you know

703
00:30:26,269 --> 00:30:22,760
ball lightning

704
00:30:29,630 --> 00:30:26,279
but when you have three planes it's near

705
00:30:31,549 --> 00:30:29,640
um a military facility

706
00:30:33,950 --> 00:30:31,559
um and you've got all of the reports

707
00:30:36,350 --> 00:30:33,960
it's seen on radar they know it's an

708
00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:36,360
unidentified craft and their only

709
00:30:42,889 --> 00:30:39,360
description of it was it was a bright

710
00:30:46,850 --> 00:30:42,899
ball of light that came down and lit up

711
00:30:49,070 --> 00:30:46,860
by the way lit up the the ground area uh

712
00:30:52,010 --> 00:30:49,080
around it and they could see it

713
00:30:53,570 --> 00:30:52,020
um you know what shouldn't you know but

714
00:30:55,669 --> 00:30:53,580
the Air Force wasn't concerned about

715
00:30:56,870 --> 00:30:55,679
that case no it's it's funny as you're

716
00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:56,880
describing that it made me think of

717
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:59,039
another case that I was looking at in in

718
00:31:05,149 --> 00:31:00,960
the heinek material it was a case from

719
00:31:07,070 --> 00:31:05,159
1952 uh level in Texas not the 57 famous

720
00:31:09,889 --> 00:31:07,080
sightings in Levelland Texas this this

721
00:31:13,130 --> 00:31:09,899
was five years prior a couple observed

722
00:31:16,070 --> 00:31:13,140
two top-shaped UFOs that were belching

723
00:31:18,529 --> 00:31:16,080
smoke or steam out the bottom and in

724
00:31:21,049 --> 00:31:18,539
some of the official write-up it states

725
00:31:22,909 --> 00:31:21,059
that well there was a pilot flying and I

726
00:31:25,610 --> 00:31:22,919
forget what type of fighter plane at the

727
00:31:28,669 --> 00:31:25,620
time and it could explain the sighting

728
00:31:31,669 --> 00:31:28,679
and heineck wrote so the pilot was

729
00:31:33,769 --> 00:31:31,679
flying two aircraft at the same time

730
00:31:37,070 --> 00:31:33,779
well how does it account for two UFOs

731
00:31:40,669 --> 00:31:37,080
right and and the uh the Air Force I saw

732
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:40,679
that report by the way and that one the

733
00:31:47,450 --> 00:31:43,679
Air Force said it was exhaust from a

734
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:47,460
known aircraft okay that's that was the

735
00:31:51,409 --> 00:31:49,440
the Air Force's reply go back and look

736
00:31:55,130 --> 00:31:51,419
at those notes I I totally cracked up

737
00:31:57,409 --> 00:31:55,140
because he said uh that he describes the

738
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:57,419
color heineck said it's it's not exhaust

739
00:32:02,149 --> 00:32:00,480
right you know so it was Vapor that's

740
00:32:05,269 --> 00:32:02,159
yeah I mean and so you know the list

741
00:32:06,529 --> 00:32:05,279
goes on and on and on but uh again you

742
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:06,539
shouldn't throw the baby out with a bath

743
00:32:10,730 --> 00:32:08,159
water because there are some incredible

744
00:32:14,330 --> 00:32:10,740
early reports uh within the military

745
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:14,340
files and it's so funny uh if you look

746
00:32:18,649 --> 00:32:16,080
at civilian as well as the blue book

747
00:32:20,810 --> 00:32:18,659
reports I was in Roswell for the 75th

748
00:32:22,370 --> 00:32:20,820
anniversary and Lou Elizondo was there

749
00:32:24,049 --> 00:32:22,380
on a panel with me we were sitting next

750
00:32:25,250 --> 00:32:24,059
to each other and in front of the

751
00:32:27,649 --> 00:32:25,260
audience you know I brought up something

752
00:32:30,649 --> 00:32:27,659
I said you know it's so funny looking at

753
00:32:32,930 --> 00:32:30,659
the history as I have and others have

754
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:32,940
um when the five of observables that Lou

755
00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:35,279
likes to talk about first was announced

756
00:32:38,690 --> 00:32:37,679
it was nothing revelatory for those of

757
00:32:41,450 --> 00:32:38,700
us that have been looking at the case

758
00:32:44,450 --> 00:32:41,460
files in depth these are characteristics

759
00:32:46,070 --> 00:32:44,460
that many or many of you move on uh

760
00:32:48,110 --> 00:32:46,080
investigators that are in your audience

761
00:32:49,490 --> 00:32:48,120
that are listing this probably think

762
00:32:51,049 --> 00:32:49,500
yeah I've had cases that you know

763
00:32:53,450 --> 00:32:51,059
demonstrate anti-gravity you know

764
00:32:55,070 --> 00:32:53,460
Hypersonic velocities and all the all

765
00:32:57,409 --> 00:32:55,080
these other characteristics it was

766
00:32:59,870 --> 00:32:57,419
nothing new but what I did tell Lou I

767
00:33:01,730 --> 00:32:59,880
said I'm not knocking Lou for this but

768
00:33:03,889 --> 00:33:01,740
what I found it to be was validating

769
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:03,899
because they were only looking at

770
00:33:09,110 --> 00:33:06,240
military reports coming through official

771
00:33:11,149 --> 00:33:09,120
sources and they were describing similar

772
00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:11,159
characteristics that we had

773
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:13,200
throughout all of the decades in the

774
00:33:17,149 --> 00:33:15,840
civilian UFO Case Files don't you find

775
00:33:18,850 --> 00:33:17,159
that

776
00:33:22,190 --> 00:33:18,860
um a a

777
00:33:25,509 --> 00:33:22,200
little funny uh in that I'm talking

778
00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:25,519
about haha funny uh comedy funny in that

779
00:33:32,990 --> 00:33:29,519
you know when somebody is new to the

780
00:33:35,870 --> 00:33:33,000
subject absolutely whether it's Lou or

781
00:33:38,570 --> 00:33:35,880
Bray and Moultrie or congressperson or

782
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:38,580
somebody uh from the defense department

783
00:33:43,009 --> 00:33:40,320
or a spokesperson it doesn't matter

784
00:33:45,049 --> 00:33:43,019
right somebody knew it goes these

785
00:33:48,370 --> 00:33:45,059
objects are demonstrated the capability

786
00:33:51,110 --> 00:33:48,380
to go in and out of the water well duh

787
00:33:53,690 --> 00:33:51,120
you're right yeah they have been

788
00:33:56,269 --> 00:33:53,700
demonstrating they take these turns they

789
00:33:57,710 --> 00:33:56,279
apparently uh might be interdimensional

790
00:34:01,850 --> 00:33:57,720
they might be

791
00:34:03,950 --> 00:34:01,860
oh man welcome to the party well you've

792
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:03,960
got a lot of research to do but we've

793
00:34:07,490 --> 00:34:06,000
been covering this forever absolutely

794
00:34:09,530 --> 00:34:07,500
well and you mentioned Brian Moultrie

795
00:34:11,149 --> 00:34:09,540
and I I mean no disrespect to those men

796
00:34:13,129 --> 00:34:11,159
when I agree with your earlier statement

797
00:34:15,470 --> 00:34:13,139
that they don't know the history but we

798
00:34:17,389 --> 00:34:15,480
have to concede and understand that they

799
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:17,399
are in very important positions as it

800
00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:18,960
relates to National Defense National

801
00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:22,560
Security their UAP duties probably are

802
00:34:27,889 --> 00:34:24,720
this big because there's other important

803
00:34:30,770 --> 00:34:27,899
things like uh Russia North Korea China

804
00:34:33,349 --> 00:34:30,780
that we're worried about as well as you

805
00:34:35,690 --> 00:34:33,359
know cyber attacks in our country uh and

806
00:34:37,490 --> 00:34:35,700
domestic terrorism so admittedly they

807
00:34:39,589 --> 00:34:37,500
have a lot on their plate I don't fault

808
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:39,599
them personally for that but exactly

809
00:34:43,430 --> 00:34:41,760
what you said Jimmy if you guys don't

810
00:34:44,990 --> 00:34:43,440
have the time if you don't have the

811
00:34:47,089 --> 00:34:45,000
resources why don't you tap the guys

812
00:34:50,930 --> 00:34:47,099
that have been doing this for decades

813
00:34:55,970 --> 00:34:50,940
well and here's yes and and here's the

814
00:35:00,050 --> 00:34:55,980
thing that was a UFO hearing and which

815
00:35:02,150 --> 00:35:00,060
was stated in the opening uh uh comments

816
00:35:04,670 --> 00:35:02,160
at the beginning of the hearing this is

817
00:35:05,870 --> 00:35:04,680
a UFO hearing right make no mistake

818
00:35:08,990 --> 00:35:05,880
about it that's what we're here to talk

819
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:09,000
about today and and the first two

820
00:35:13,310 --> 00:35:11,520
witnesses Brea Moultrie had a UFO

821
00:35:18,370 --> 00:35:13,320
hearing apparently

822
00:35:22,329 --> 00:35:18,380
don't even know what a UFO is and and to

823
00:35:26,870 --> 00:35:22,339
uh uh to to the point

824
00:35:29,270 --> 00:35:26,880
when if if you're going to focus on

825
00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:29,280
um uh Department of Defense and security

826
00:35:34,849 --> 00:35:32,640
and threats right and and I think it was

827
00:35:37,490 --> 00:35:34,859
Gallagher I could be wrong but one one

828
00:35:39,370 --> 00:35:37,500
of the representatives uh brings up

829
00:35:42,650 --> 00:35:39,380
Mounds from yeah

830
00:35:44,270 --> 00:35:42,660
and when they did Bray and Moultrie well

831
00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:44,280
I've never heard of that did you have

832
00:35:51,650 --> 00:35:48,000
you ever heard no I've I've never well I

833
00:35:54,589 --> 00:35:51,660
I could be wrong here but of all the

834
00:35:56,210 --> 00:35:54,599
cases besides like Randall shim right

835
00:35:58,730 --> 00:35:56,220
you know which is an Air Force case

836
00:36:03,050 --> 00:35:58,740
that's Air Force absolutely out of all

837
00:36:04,910 --> 00:36:03,060
the case uh UFOs and nukes and and what

838
00:36:07,370 --> 00:36:04,920
went on up there

839
00:36:10,069 --> 00:36:07,380
should be like at on the top of the

840
00:36:12,290 --> 00:36:10,079
stack on your desk well I agree and and

841
00:36:15,530 --> 00:36:12,300
again let's not disparage them too much

842
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:15,540
because I think possibly I don't want to

843
00:36:20,750 --> 00:36:18,480
get my hopes up too high 2023 may be a

844
00:36:22,430 --> 00:36:20,760
game-changing year as far as the

845
00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:22,440
government now starting to look at the

846
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:24,839
history so let's give them another year

847
00:36:28,490 --> 00:36:26,880
let's see if they truly do follow

848
00:36:30,290 --> 00:36:28,500
through on that and they actually start

849
00:36:34,190 --> 00:36:30,300
doing that deep dive starting to look

850
00:36:35,630 --> 00:36:34,200
prior to 2004. uh I think it's promising

851
00:36:39,069 --> 00:36:35,640
that the government accounting agency

852
00:36:42,890 --> 00:36:39,079
the GAO has that in there

853
00:36:44,329 --> 00:36:42,900
and uh I I'm just interested to see

854
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:44,339
where that goes and it'll be interesting

855
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:47,280
to see if we do get tapped uh as this uh

856
00:36:50,690 --> 00:36:48,960
Coalition of leading historians and

857
00:36:51,890 --> 00:36:50,700
archivists in the country with regard to

858
00:36:54,829 --> 00:36:51,900
our information

859
00:36:56,510 --> 00:36:54,839
now what do you think is is about to

860
00:36:59,510 --> 00:36:56,520
happen do you think that we're going to

861
00:37:02,690 --> 00:36:59,520
get the the report and do you think that

862
00:37:05,450 --> 00:37:02,700
we are going to have additional hearings

863
00:37:07,970 --> 00:37:05,460
let's deal with the report first yeah I

864
00:37:11,870 --> 00:37:07,980
I hate to make make predictions but if I

865
00:37:14,030 --> 00:37:11,880
were a betting man uh which I'm not uh I

866
00:37:16,069 --> 00:37:14,040
would probably suspect we're going to

867
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:16,079
get a watered-down version much like the

868
00:37:22,670 --> 00:37:20,640
Pentagon report last year uh in 2021. uh

869
00:37:24,290 --> 00:37:22,680
I doubt there'll be much substance that

870
00:37:26,089 --> 00:37:24,300
the general public will see now what

871
00:37:28,430 --> 00:37:26,099
members of Congress the Senate

872
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:28,440
intelligence committee and others uh

873
00:37:32,810 --> 00:37:30,000
look at that may be something altogether

874
00:37:34,130 --> 00:37:32,820
different I just historically speaking

875
00:37:35,630 --> 00:37:34,140
and I'm just I'm not saying this

876
00:37:38,390 --> 00:37:35,640
arbitrarily I'm just saying if the past

877
00:37:39,650 --> 00:37:38,400
is prologue I I just think that there's

878
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:39,660
not going to be a lot of substance

879
00:37:43,370 --> 00:37:40,800
that's going to be offered to the

880
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:43,380
general public I thought

881
00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:45,359
you know I know that there was a lot of

882
00:37:48,770 --> 00:37:46,560
people that were disappointed because

883
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:48,780
they didn't say Little Green Men you

884
00:37:55,790 --> 00:37:52,320
know and 18 but but I thought that the

885
00:37:58,370 --> 00:37:55,800
report said an awful lot oh it did

886
00:38:00,349 --> 00:37:58,380
absolutely I I am in complete agreement

887
00:38:02,630 --> 00:38:00,359
with you and Barry Greenwood uh my

888
00:38:04,250 --> 00:38:02,640
colleague and friend uh we've had this

889
00:38:06,050 --> 00:38:04,260
discussion many times

890
00:38:08,030 --> 00:38:06,060
I think it depends on who you talk to

891
00:38:10,130 --> 00:38:08,040
Jimmy for those of us that have been

892
00:38:13,310 --> 00:38:10,140
around and we remember you know the old

893
00:38:14,270 --> 00:38:13,320
days of deny deny deny the subject you

894
00:38:16,010 --> 00:38:14,280
know because we have a whole new

895
00:38:17,930 --> 00:38:16,020
generation now that as I like to call it

896
00:38:20,770 --> 00:38:17,940
the the the the Post New York Times

897
00:38:25,790 --> 00:38:20,780
generation the new people coming in

898
00:38:27,230 --> 00:38:25,800
the Decades of denial where CIA denied

899
00:38:29,089 --> 00:38:27,240
that they had any government documents

900
00:38:30,589 --> 00:38:29,099
on UFOs and then through foia requests

901
00:38:33,230 --> 00:38:30,599
hundreds and thousands of pages were

902
00:38:35,569 --> 00:38:33,240
released same with the FBI uh they never

903
00:38:37,370 --> 00:38:35,579
had to hear the constant repetition that

904
00:38:39,290 --> 00:38:37,380
well thank you for your inquiry

905
00:38:41,030 --> 00:38:39,300
regarding UFOs but uh the government

906
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:41,040
lost all interest when it closed Project

907
00:38:47,270 --> 00:38:44,400
Blue Book in December 1969 and I even in

908
00:38:50,270 --> 00:38:47,280
my lecture Series this year I showed a

909
00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:50,280
clip of an Air Force officer making the

910
00:38:54,470 --> 00:38:51,839
announcement and going through the three

911
00:38:57,589 --> 00:38:54,480
conclusions of Project Blue Book uh one

912
00:38:59,329 --> 00:38:57,599
of which was uh UFOs do not constitute a

913
00:39:02,450 --> 00:38:59,339
threat to National Security

914
00:39:03,770 --> 00:39:02,460
to your point the UFO report the

915
00:39:05,569 --> 00:39:03,780
reasoning it was put together was

916
00:39:07,310 --> 00:39:05,579
predicated on the fact that it does

917
00:39:10,490 --> 00:39:07,320
potentially constitute a threat to

918
00:39:12,589 --> 00:39:10,500
National Security and air safety so

919
00:39:15,770 --> 00:39:12,599
right there there's a contradiction a

920
00:39:18,230 --> 00:39:15,780
complete 180 reversal from the Project

921
00:39:20,089 --> 00:39:18,240
Blue Book conclusion and the other

922
00:39:21,650 --> 00:39:20,099
conclusion was that there was nothing

923
00:39:24,530 --> 00:39:21,660
that indicated that these things are

924
00:39:26,930 --> 00:39:24,540
extraterrestrial well the other category

925
00:39:28,670 --> 00:39:26,940
they left it open in the Pentagon report

926
00:39:32,870 --> 00:39:28,680
so it could be extraterrestrial

927
00:39:35,569 --> 00:39:32,880
potentially the other bin right the

928
00:39:38,089 --> 00:39:35,579
other bit better and just real quick the

929
00:39:40,030 --> 00:39:38,099
third conclusion that the UFOs did not

930
00:39:42,230 --> 00:39:40,040
demonstrate any technological

931
00:39:44,750 --> 00:39:42,240
advancements in science that we don't

932
00:39:46,970 --> 00:39:44,760
already understand the Pentagon report

933
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:46,980
acknowledges they don't understand how

934
00:39:51,650 --> 00:39:48,960
some of these things fly they they're

935
00:39:53,329 --> 00:39:51,660
trying to understand the technology so I

936
00:39:55,849 --> 00:39:53,339
would argue I would I would put forth to

937
00:39:58,430 --> 00:39:55,859
you and your audience the Pentagon UFO

938
00:40:01,609 --> 00:39:58,440
report last year although lacking detail

939
00:40:03,710 --> 00:40:01,619
as we've discussed it directly

940
00:40:06,290 --> 00:40:03,720
contradicted every official statement of

941
00:40:08,750 --> 00:40:06,300
Project Blue Book which for decades was

942
00:40:11,150 --> 00:40:08,760
kind of the the The Benchmark that they

943
00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:11,160
always would reference that this is the

944
00:40:15,230 --> 00:40:12,720
official conclusion this is where we

945
00:40:18,109 --> 00:40:15,240
stand it has completely changed the

946
00:40:20,150 --> 00:40:18,119
equation and even if there's not

947
00:40:22,069 --> 00:40:20,160
substance being released look at the

948
00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:22,079
people getting involved now NASA the

949
00:40:29,870 --> 00:40:27,119
aiaa uh Dr Avi Loeb other academics and

950
00:40:31,609 --> 00:40:29,880
mainstream scientists uh the people that

951
00:40:33,410 --> 00:40:31,619
I've talked to uh just in the last

952
00:40:35,329 --> 00:40:33,420
couple years I did a local live radio

953
00:40:37,790 --> 00:40:35,339
show here in Albuquerque I do it on a

954
00:40:39,650 --> 00:40:37,800
quarterly basis I mentioned that I had

955
00:40:42,050 --> 00:40:39,660
Dr Jale and heineck's Project Blue Book

956
00:40:43,490 --> 00:40:42,060
material I had a gentleman call in he

957
00:40:44,990 --> 00:40:43,500
said David he goes I'm a retired

958
00:40:46,609 --> 00:40:45,000
lieutenant colonel in the Air Force he

959
00:40:47,990 --> 00:40:46,619
goes I live here in Albuquerque I'm now

960
00:40:50,270 --> 00:40:48,000
retired because I'd love to come see

961
00:40:52,910 --> 00:40:50,280
those files he showed up about three

962
00:40:54,829 --> 00:40:52,920
weeks later here to my research room and

963
00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:54,839
he brought a friend with him who was a

964
00:40:58,849 --> 00:40:57,119
retired Air Force Colonel who was in

965
00:41:01,370 --> 00:40:58,859
charge of advanced weapons development

966
00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:01,380
for the air Force now the reason I I

967
00:41:06,170 --> 00:41:03,599
offer this up to you as an example

968
00:41:08,030 --> 00:41:06,180
I've been doing this for 32 years I've

969
00:41:09,890 --> 00:41:08,040
never had a retired Colonel and

970
00:41:12,650 --> 00:41:09,900
Lieutenant Colonel want to come to my

971
00:41:14,150 --> 00:41:12,660
home to sit down and talk UFOs and see

972
00:41:16,670 --> 00:41:14,160
the historical material that I have

973
00:41:19,370 --> 00:41:16,680
that's just one indicator of where we're

974
00:41:22,910 --> 00:41:19,380
at now with this dialogue did you have

975
00:41:25,790 --> 00:41:22,920
the opportunity to to ask them some

976
00:41:28,010 --> 00:41:25,800
questions about I did I was very

977
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:28,020
delicate uh very subtle I didn't want to

978
00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:30,480
ask them too many direct questions they

979
00:41:34,130 --> 00:41:32,640
really didn't provide much I would argue

980
00:41:36,770 --> 00:41:34,140
I probably provided them with more

981
00:41:39,230 --> 00:41:36,780
information than they did for me but at

982
00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:39,240
one point I looked over at the retired

983
00:41:42,650 --> 00:41:41,280
Colonel because he was the he was the

984
00:41:44,089 --> 00:41:42,660
one that really kept his cards close to

985
00:41:47,390 --> 00:41:44,099
the vest more than anybody and I looked

986
00:41:49,350 --> 00:41:47,400
over him I said so are the UFOs real can

987
00:41:52,089 --> 00:41:49,360
you just collect he goes oh yeah

988
00:41:56,410 --> 00:41:52,099
[Laughter]

989
00:42:00,589 --> 00:41:56,420
the um going back to the flip-flop

990
00:42:03,410 --> 00:42:00,599
because I think it is certainly with a

991
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:03,420
historical perspective there there has

992
00:42:09,230 --> 00:42:07,440
been many flip-flops it's not you know

993
00:42:12,710 --> 00:42:09,240
just recently

994
00:42:14,750 --> 00:42:12,720
um but but we've got this dramatic

995
00:42:19,250 --> 00:42:14,760
flip-flop we haven't seen the new report

996
00:42:22,190 --> 00:42:19,260
right but there has been a smattering of

997
00:42:25,430 --> 00:42:22,200
of Gossip out there uh in New York Times

998
00:42:28,510 --> 00:42:25,440
being one and one of the tabloids out of

999
00:42:31,550 --> 00:42:28,520
the UK uh the UK in choir or whatever

1000
00:42:35,510 --> 00:42:31,560
you know stating certain things which

1001
00:42:37,250 --> 00:42:35,520
would indicate a serious flip-flop from

1002
00:42:39,770 --> 00:42:37,260
the last report that came out of August

1003
00:42:45,430 --> 00:42:39,780
of last year which August of last year

1004
00:42:48,770 --> 00:42:45,440
103 143 144 143 one was you know confirm

1005
00:42:51,890 --> 00:42:48,780
143k so the other bin it's not China

1006
00:42:55,370 --> 00:42:51,900
it's not Russia it's not us but we don't

1007
00:42:58,670 --> 00:42:55,380
know what's going on right okay two

1008
00:43:01,970 --> 00:42:58,680
what appears to be if the rumors are

1009
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:01,980
true that it's Chinese drones now that

1010
00:43:07,609 --> 00:43:04,079
they figured this out now that's a

1011
00:43:10,550 --> 00:43:07,619
flip-flop just from last August right

1012
00:43:12,650 --> 00:43:10,560
and I and I wouldn't be surprised if uh

1013
00:43:14,990 --> 00:43:12,660
foreign adversaries drones are in the

1014
00:43:16,250 --> 00:43:15,000
mix certainly I mean let's be honest you

1015
00:43:18,290 --> 00:43:16,260
know we can't paint with a broad brush

1016
00:43:19,730 --> 00:43:18,300
even the Blue Book material some of the

1017
00:43:21,349 --> 00:43:19,740
conventional explanations they came up

1018
00:43:23,329 --> 00:43:21,359
with I agree with I think they probably

1019
00:43:25,910 --> 00:43:23,339
were right some of these things did have

1020
00:43:29,210 --> 00:43:25,920
conventional explanations but clearly

1021
00:43:30,410 --> 00:43:29,220
there's some highly anomalous reports uh

1022
00:43:32,510 --> 00:43:30,420
you know just looking at the ones that

1023
00:43:34,670 --> 00:43:32,520
we know of like the Nimitz incident the

1024
00:43:37,010 --> 00:43:34,680
the way that this object flew based on

1025
00:43:38,690 --> 00:43:37,020
David fraver's testimony

1026
00:43:43,250 --> 00:43:38,700
um some of these things are extremely

1027
00:43:44,750 --> 00:43:43,260
exotic in the extreme and uh I I just uh

1028
00:43:47,150 --> 00:43:44,760
don't think we can summarily discount

1029
00:43:49,609 --> 00:43:47,160
all of these things with prosaic

1030
00:43:51,950 --> 00:43:49,619
explanations but beyond the UFOs

1031
00:43:55,430 --> 00:43:51,960
themselves Jimmy the history also

1032
00:43:57,109 --> 00:43:55,440
repeats itself because if you recall uh

1033
00:43:59,809 --> 00:43:57,119
in the early days

1034
00:44:02,450 --> 00:43:59,819
um Donald Kehoe and others would talk

1035
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:02,460
about in Project Blue Book there were

1036
00:44:07,970 --> 00:44:05,760
the processor military people and the

1037
00:44:10,069 --> 00:44:07,980
anti-saucer military people

1038
00:44:11,690 --> 00:44:10,079
and it's interesting because even though

1039
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:11,700
you're in this position of authority

1040
00:44:16,670 --> 00:44:15,119
you're still finding that people default

1041
00:44:18,950 --> 00:44:16,680
to their own personal views on things

1042
00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:18,960
some people didn't want to accept

1043
00:44:23,390 --> 00:44:20,880
saucers for whatever reason whether it

1044
00:44:26,690 --> 00:44:23,400
was against their religion or they were

1045
00:44:27,950 --> 00:44:26,700
simply in denial uh others were totally

1046
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:27,960
open to it saying yes if they're

1047
00:44:31,609 --> 00:44:29,520
unidentified we need to be examining

1048
00:44:33,589 --> 00:44:31,619
these things I would argue and there's

1049
00:44:35,510 --> 00:44:33,599
been hints of this already by various

1050
00:44:36,829 --> 00:44:35,520
statements that some of the people in

1051
00:44:38,630 --> 00:44:36,839
government don't feel they should be

1052
00:44:40,309 --> 00:44:38,640
looking into it that we should just be

1053
00:44:42,170 --> 00:44:40,319
focusing on other things whereas other

1054
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:42,180
people are like no we need to look at

1055
00:44:46,370 --> 00:44:44,640
this I think Senator Marco Rubio is one

1056
00:44:48,349 --> 00:44:46,380
that's been pretty outspoken as far as I

1057
00:44:49,609 --> 00:44:48,359
think he genuinely has an interest in

1058
00:44:52,069 --> 00:44:49,619
trying to understand what these things

1059
00:44:53,690 --> 00:44:52,079
are and Senator Martin Heinrich here of

1060
00:44:55,550 --> 00:44:53,700
New Mexico who I hope to meet with after

1061
00:44:58,130 --> 00:44:55,560
the first of the year

1062
00:45:00,589 --> 00:44:58,140
um I think they have a a vested interest

1063
00:45:02,030 --> 00:45:00,599
in trying to understand this they're on

1064
00:45:04,970 --> 00:45:02,040
the Senate intelligence committee I mean

1065
00:45:06,349 --> 00:45:04,980
they're tasked with National Security if

1066
00:45:07,730 --> 00:45:06,359
you have these objects flying around

1067
00:45:09,109 --> 00:45:07,740
with impunity and we don't know what

1068
00:45:11,210 --> 00:45:09,119
they are we don't know where they came

1069
00:45:12,650 --> 00:45:11,220
from we don't know how they fly how is

1070
00:45:15,230 --> 00:45:12,660
that not of National Defense interest

1071
00:45:19,430 --> 00:45:15,240
here in New Mexico last year February

1072
00:45:21,349 --> 00:45:19,440
21st 2021 American Airlines flight just

1073
00:45:24,109 --> 00:45:21,359
in the northeast corner of the state was

1074
00:45:27,410 --> 00:45:24,119
almost hit by a cylindrical UFO radio

1075
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:27,420
chatter from the pilot and ground uh

1076
00:45:32,690 --> 00:45:30,000
were recorded and were able to hear

1077
00:45:34,309 --> 00:45:32,700
their testimony less than 24 hours after

1078
00:45:37,069 --> 00:45:34,319
that event I was sitting here at this

1079
00:45:39,770 --> 00:45:37,079
very desk filing a foia request to try

1080
00:45:43,250 --> 00:45:39,780
to get documents related to that myself

1081
00:45:44,750 --> 00:45:43,260
Robert Powell with SCU and a number of

1082
00:45:47,870 --> 00:45:44,760
other researchers did the same thing

1083
00:45:49,430 --> 00:45:47,880
John Greenwald another person none of us

1084
00:45:51,589 --> 00:45:49,440
were able to get any documents they came

1085
00:45:54,650 --> 00:45:51,599
up with this outlandish explanation that

1086
00:45:56,690 --> 00:45:54,660
well it might be under investigation by

1087
00:45:58,910 --> 00:45:56,700
another agency and if it is we can't

1088
00:46:00,710 --> 00:45:58,920
release any documents so they didn't say

1089
00:46:02,089 --> 00:46:00,720
there was an investigation but just in

1090
00:46:04,250 --> 00:46:02,099
case there is we really can't release

1091
00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:04,260
any if we even had any documents it was

1092
00:46:09,770 --> 00:46:06,720
it was it was an example of official

1093
00:46:11,210 --> 00:46:09,780
double talk at its best how far how far

1094
00:46:12,890 --> 00:46:11,220
did you get with that investigation

1095
00:46:15,050 --> 00:46:12,900
because

1096
00:46:18,349 --> 00:46:15,060
um the the points the the the the the

1097
00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:18,359
the big bullet points in that yeah was

1098
00:46:22,430 --> 00:46:20,880
uh it wasn't a missile right it was

1099
00:46:26,150 --> 00:46:22,440
cylindrical

1100
00:46:27,890 --> 00:46:26,160
um but it is flying in an area well

1101
00:46:30,950 --> 00:46:27,900
let's just talk about New Mexico where

1102
00:46:32,990 --> 00:46:30,960
you have missile testing and you have uh

1103
00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:33,000
the things that are going on there uh

1104
00:46:39,530 --> 00:46:35,839
from the defense department but

1105
00:46:40,849 --> 00:46:39,540
the Department of Defense uh this is a

1106
00:46:42,290 --> 00:46:40,859
bullet point said no there was no

1107
00:46:44,270 --> 00:46:42,300
missile testing going on there was

1108
00:46:47,030 --> 00:46:44,280
nothing off course if it would have

1109
00:46:49,309 --> 00:46:47,040
flown where they were it was flying way

1110
00:46:52,250 --> 00:46:49,319
off course it was yeah because this was

1111
00:46:53,930 --> 00:46:52,260
in the far Northeast section testing is

1112
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:53,940
done in White Sands which is down to the

1113
00:46:59,270 --> 00:46:56,400
southeast well anyway pilot would know a

1114
00:47:01,430 --> 00:46:59,280
missile because you're gonna see uh an

1115
00:47:03,170 --> 00:47:01,440
uh a rocket engine running absolutely

1116
00:47:05,030 --> 00:47:03,180
but it just demonstrates that I mean

1117
00:47:07,010 --> 00:47:05,040
even now we're still getting these

1118
00:47:09,589 --> 00:47:07,020
reports coming in by commercial pilots

1119
00:47:11,450 --> 00:47:09,599
that are seeing these things and for any

1120
00:47:12,829 --> 00:47:11,460
of us that have flown on a plane I know

1121
00:47:14,990 --> 00:47:12,839
I personally would like to know what

1122
00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:15,000
they are I'm going up in this quote

1123
00:47:18,770 --> 00:47:16,800
unquote controlled airspace and it's not

1124
00:47:21,170 --> 00:47:18,780
controlled we have objects that are

1125
00:47:23,329 --> 00:47:21,180
flying around and we have no control

1126
00:47:25,730 --> 00:47:23,339
over them so it's kind of a misnomer to

1127
00:47:28,490 --> 00:47:25,740
call it controlled airspace what we also

1128
00:47:31,010 --> 00:47:28,500
had uh David if you remember that period

1129
00:47:33,410 --> 00:47:31,020
uh a few months before and a few months

1130
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:33,420
after was actually pretty interesting

1131
00:47:36,349 --> 00:47:35,280
because we had those f-18s that were

1132
00:47:38,809 --> 00:47:36,359
scrambled

1133
00:47:42,770 --> 00:47:38,819
um up uh uh off the coast of Oregon

1134
00:47:45,890 --> 00:47:42,780
correct we had another sighting uh of uh

1135
00:47:49,250 --> 00:47:45,900
that went between they were flying from

1136
00:47:52,010 --> 00:47:49,260
Phoenix to Albuquerque I think was the

1137
00:47:53,809 --> 00:47:52,020
commercial flight there right

1138
00:47:56,210 --> 00:47:53,819
um uh that saw something and then we had

1139
00:47:58,130 --> 00:47:56,220
the one uh that you're talking about all

1140
00:48:02,329 --> 00:47:58,140
happened uh back to back to back where

1141
00:48:04,730 --> 00:48:02,339
we had Pilots uh and and in the case in

1142
00:48:06,230 --> 00:48:04,740
Oregon those were f-18s

1143
00:48:10,190 --> 00:48:06,240
um but we have multiple sightings

1144
00:48:11,630 --> 00:48:10,200
confirmed by the fa AAA and Jimmy I

1145
00:48:14,030 --> 00:48:11,640
always like to mention this anytime we

1146
00:48:16,910 --> 00:48:14,040
talk about sightings that we know of

1147
00:48:19,069 --> 00:48:16,920
what about the ones we never hear about

1148
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:19,079
right right

1149
00:48:26,270 --> 00:48:23,280
um but that was uh uh for the FAA to

1150
00:48:30,589 --> 00:48:26,280
step in uh I I thought was interesting

1151
00:48:33,950 --> 00:48:30,599
yeah and uh and also release uh the the

1152
00:48:36,290 --> 00:48:33,960
radio uh the cockpit recordings from the

1153
00:48:37,849 --> 00:48:36,300
FAA I thought that was very unique

1154
00:48:40,430 --> 00:48:37,859
didn't you yeah well that was actually

1155
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:40,440
captured by a civilian who is tuning in

1156
00:48:44,809 --> 00:48:42,720
uh on his ham radio and shortwave radio

1157
00:48:46,790 --> 00:48:44,819
he actually picked it up and recorded it

1158
00:48:48,170 --> 00:48:46,800
so it was never through any official

1159
00:48:51,950 --> 00:48:48,180
source that that information was

1160
00:48:53,569 --> 00:48:51,960
released so again I always say even the

1161
00:48:55,790 --> 00:48:53,579
tantalizing bits that we have they're

1162
00:48:57,650 --> 00:48:55,800
table scraps relative to probably what's

1163
00:49:02,329 --> 00:48:57,660
going on as a whole

1164
00:49:06,010 --> 00:49:02,339
what and so uh you don't think let's

1165
00:49:10,010 --> 00:49:06,020
let's back up uh to my original question

1166
00:49:12,890 --> 00:49:10,020
uh the report's been delayed since uh

1167
00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:12,900
October 31st yeah um I'm hoping it's

1168
00:49:17,450 --> 00:49:15,119
gonna happen in the next couple of weeks

1169
00:49:20,450 --> 00:49:17,460
before the end of the uh you know

1170
00:49:23,089 --> 00:49:20,460
December 31st before the end of the year

1171
00:49:26,210 --> 00:49:23,099
um but UFO hearings both at the house

1172
00:49:31,309 --> 00:49:26,220
and at and at the Senate

1173
00:49:34,190 --> 00:49:31,319
um I I would expect those two happen

1174
00:49:37,010 --> 00:49:34,200
um do you think with the change of of

1175
00:49:39,589 --> 00:49:37,020
the house which is January 15th yeah

1176
00:49:43,609 --> 00:49:39,599
that the the focus may change the

1177
00:49:46,010 --> 00:49:43,619
Democrats may have uh retained control

1178
00:49:48,230 --> 00:49:46,020
of the Senate well they've got a 50 50

1179
00:49:49,550 --> 00:49:48,240
split right now so they do have control

1180
00:49:52,670 --> 00:49:49,560
but

1181
00:49:54,530 --> 00:49:52,680
um that uh it will enable things to move

1182
00:49:56,809 --> 00:49:54,540
forward what do you think that you think

1183
00:49:58,250 --> 00:49:56,819
we'll get additional hearings I think we

1184
00:49:59,750 --> 00:49:58,260
will and again I hate to make

1185
00:50:02,270 --> 00:49:59,760
predictions but this is just my own

1186
00:50:04,609 --> 00:50:02,280
personal feeling I think we will simply

1187
00:50:06,950 --> 00:50:04,619
because as you and I think your audience

1188
00:50:08,329 --> 00:50:06,960
knows what's unique about the UFO

1189
00:50:10,030 --> 00:50:08,339
subject and I was just mentioning this

1190
00:50:13,670 --> 00:50:10,040
to the Albuquerque Journal the other day

1191
00:50:16,370 --> 00:50:13,680
uh what's unique as we have emerged out

1192
00:50:18,530 --> 00:50:16,380
of the midterm elections just recently I

1193
00:50:20,390 --> 00:50:18,540
find it fascinating that in this

1194
00:50:21,890 --> 00:50:20,400
polarized political environment we live

1195
00:50:24,410 --> 00:50:21,900
in here in the United States right now

1196
00:50:26,510 --> 00:50:24,420
the one thing that Democrats and

1197
00:50:29,270 --> 00:50:26,520
Republicans seem to agree on is that

1198
00:50:31,309 --> 00:50:29,280
UFOs uaps need to be looked at it seems

1199
00:50:35,270 --> 00:50:31,319
to have bipartisan agreement

1200
00:50:37,490 --> 00:50:35,280
it it it's an earth issue it is it is

1201
00:50:39,530 --> 00:50:37,500
and I think historically and again not

1202
00:50:41,450 --> 00:50:39,540
to get political but I think your

1203
00:50:43,550 --> 00:50:41,460
audience will agree historically

1204
00:50:46,069 --> 00:50:43,560
Republicans are always focused more on

1205
00:50:47,450 --> 00:50:46,079
defense National defense spending and so

1206
00:50:49,790 --> 00:50:47,460
I think they're looking at it from a

1207
00:50:52,430 --> 00:50:49,800
national security standpoint I think

1208
00:50:54,589 --> 00:50:52,440
traditionally Democrats have always been

1209
00:50:55,790 --> 00:50:54,599
about openness and transparency with

1210
00:50:57,829 --> 00:50:55,800
regard to government and I'm talking

1211
00:50:59,390 --> 00:50:57,839
historically speaking

1212
00:51:01,609 --> 00:50:59,400
um so I think they're coming at it maybe

1213
00:51:03,710 --> 00:51:01,619
from different perspectives with

1214
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:03,720
different rationale but at the end of

1215
00:51:08,569 --> 00:51:06,240
the day Jimmy I don't care as long as we

1216
00:51:10,730 --> 00:51:08,579
keep this subject relevant we keep it in

1217
00:51:13,130 --> 00:51:10,740
the public Spotlight and we have

1218
00:51:14,829 --> 00:51:13,140
scientific organizations and scientists

1219
00:51:17,930 --> 00:51:14,839
now starting to look at the data

1220
00:51:20,089 --> 00:51:17,940
wherever the politicians take it I think

1221
00:51:22,609 --> 00:51:20,099
the Genies out of the bottle and we're

1222
00:51:25,130 --> 00:51:22,619
now in a new era where we have really

1223
00:51:26,329 --> 00:51:25,140
intelligent people that for decades have

1224
00:51:28,010 --> 00:51:26,339
refused to look at the information

1225
00:51:30,410 --> 00:51:28,020
they're now stepping up to the plate

1226
00:51:32,089 --> 00:51:30,420
I've always said the more brains and

1227
00:51:34,010 --> 00:51:32,099
sets of eyes we have looking at the

1228
00:51:36,230 --> 00:51:34,020
problem I think it bodes well for the

1229
00:51:37,930 --> 00:51:36,240
future what do we do with the the you

1230
00:51:41,150 --> 00:51:37,940
know the threat narrative I understand

1231
00:51:45,230 --> 00:51:41,160
airspace and for some reason a lot of

1232
00:51:47,870 --> 00:51:45,240
these uh recent recent sightings have

1233
00:51:49,970 --> 00:51:47,880
involved uh training missions and and

1234
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:49,980
and and and and things with with the

1235
00:51:54,950 --> 00:51:52,319
United States Navy that that's a pretty

1236
00:51:58,609 --> 00:51:54,960
scary idea that somebody out there has

1237
00:52:01,970 --> 00:51:58,619
the ability and the interest yes uh to

1238
00:52:05,450 --> 00:52:01,980
to focus on that but but nobody's

1239
00:52:07,370 --> 00:52:05,460
shooting at anybody right yes as far as

1240
00:52:09,530 --> 00:52:07,380
we know and I'm really glad you bring

1241
00:52:10,849 --> 00:52:09,540
this up because having gone to a lot of

1242
00:52:12,349 --> 00:52:10,859
different lectures I've talked to a lot

1243
00:52:14,150 --> 00:52:12,359
of people across the country this year

1244
00:52:16,010 --> 00:52:14,160
and it's come up a number of times

1245
00:52:17,329 --> 00:52:16,020
people say you know well if these things

1246
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:17,339
wanted to kill us they could have done

1247
00:52:20,210 --> 00:52:18,720
it a long time ago they've obviously

1248
00:52:22,430 --> 00:52:20,220
been around a long time and I said but

1249
00:52:24,710 --> 00:52:22,440
you have to understand is these are

1250
00:52:26,270 --> 00:52:24,720
people in political positions these are

1251
00:52:28,130 --> 00:52:26,280
people in Military and intelligence

1252
00:52:29,650 --> 00:52:28,140
positions they're not the average Joe

1253
00:52:32,390 --> 00:52:29,660
like you and I

1254
00:52:35,030 --> 00:52:32,400
they have to view everything through the

1255
00:52:37,190 --> 00:52:35,040
lens of National Security if you have an

1256
00:52:39,470 --> 00:52:37,200
object I don't care what it is if you

1257
00:52:42,049 --> 00:52:39,480
have an object that is violating

1258
00:52:43,790 --> 00:52:42,059
Military and Commercial airspace as I

1259
00:52:44,930 --> 00:52:43,800
mentioned earlier you don't know where

1260
00:52:46,309 --> 00:52:44,940
it's from you don't know who's

1261
00:52:47,390 --> 00:52:46,319
controlling it you don't know the

1262
00:52:49,549 --> 00:52:47,400
motives

1263
00:52:52,490 --> 00:52:49,559
you have to view that as a and this is

1264
00:52:55,250 --> 00:52:52,500
the keyword potential security threat

1265
00:52:58,490 --> 00:52:55,260
national security threat doesn't mean it

1266
00:53:00,950 --> 00:52:58,500
is but it's your job to defend the

1267
00:53:03,950 --> 00:53:00,960
country and to defend the electorate so

1268
00:53:05,990 --> 00:53:03,960
you have to view it by default as a

1269
00:53:08,530 --> 00:53:06,000
Potential Threat with the understanding

1270
00:53:10,490 --> 00:53:08,540
the key word is potential

1271
00:53:12,589 --> 00:53:10,500
the

1272
00:53:15,710 --> 00:53:12,599
all right this is where I'm just going

1273
00:53:23,510 --> 00:53:20,450
the way that favor describes

1274
00:53:26,870 --> 00:53:23,520
his sighting yeah

1275
00:53:30,349 --> 00:53:26,880
the Tic Tac ran away

1276
00:53:33,290 --> 00:53:30,359
yeah the Tic Tac didn't do anything

1277
00:53:35,510 --> 00:53:33,300
offensive the Tic Tac apparently with

1278
00:53:38,690 --> 00:53:35,520
that kind of Technology could have done

1279
00:53:42,109 --> 00:53:38,700
whatever it wanted with uh you know an

1280
00:53:45,470 --> 00:53:42,119
F-18 Hornet as cool as that plane is oh

1281
00:53:49,370 --> 00:53:45,480
absolutely it obviously is is not uh the

1282
00:53:51,049 --> 00:53:49,380
Tic Tac which was demonstrating uh crazy

1283
00:53:54,410 --> 00:53:51,059
speeds

1284
00:53:56,990 --> 00:53:54,420
um without wings and a source of

1285
00:54:01,010 --> 00:53:57,000
propulsion right that's pretty that's

1286
00:54:03,049 --> 00:54:01,020
pretty intimidating but it ran away now

1287
00:54:05,510 --> 00:54:03,059
did it run away this is where I'm gonna

1288
00:54:07,150 --> 00:54:05,520
get a little controversial here did it

1289
00:54:12,049 --> 00:54:07,160
run away because

1290
00:54:15,410 --> 00:54:12,059
that was its AI that was its instruction

1291
00:54:18,230 --> 00:54:15,420
set sure scientific Mission from another

1292
00:54:21,530 --> 00:54:18,240
planet you're there to check it out and

1293
00:54:24,829 --> 00:54:21,540
if you see anything scary protect it Fly

1294
00:54:28,910 --> 00:54:24,839
Away right and and and and get your work

1295
00:54:31,370 --> 00:54:28,920
done uh but uh you need to survive right

1296
00:54:33,290 --> 00:54:31,380
it's quite possible or if there wasn't

1297
00:54:35,930 --> 00:54:33,300
any the intelligence behind it Beyond

1298
00:54:37,609 --> 00:54:35,940
artificial intelligence maybe it just

1299
00:54:38,990 --> 00:54:37,619
got bored it realized okay I've

1300
00:54:40,549 --> 00:54:39,000
collected as much data on this as

1301
00:54:44,150 --> 00:54:40,559
possible I'm now moving on to the next

1302
00:54:46,010 --> 00:54:44,160
area of Interest yeah and and I I always

1303
00:54:47,990 --> 00:54:46,020
look at we're going to head to a break

1304
00:54:50,270 --> 00:54:48,000
here in just a second no we don't have

1305
00:54:52,809 --> 00:54:50,280
to take it on time but

1306
00:54:57,530 --> 00:54:52,819
um when we look at uh

1307
00:55:01,130 --> 00:54:57,540
uh uh spirit or perseverance or

1308
00:55:04,549 --> 00:55:01,140
Integrity or or Voyager or Pioneer or

1309
00:55:08,650 --> 00:55:04,559
whatever you want a mariner right any

1310
00:55:12,170 --> 00:55:08,660
one of the missions that we have sent to

1311
00:55:14,710 --> 00:55:12,180
other planets and and out into the solar

1312
00:55:18,829 --> 00:55:14,720
system uh to the best of my knowledge

1313
00:55:20,990 --> 00:55:18,839
there's no offensive weapons there these

1314
00:55:22,670 --> 00:55:21,000
are scientific missions absolutely

1315
00:55:24,650 --> 00:55:22,680
absolutely

1316
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:24,660
um and and that's it

1317
00:55:33,589 --> 00:55:28,880
so why would we expect something

1318
00:55:34,790 --> 00:55:33,599
offensive here right and and until now I

1319
00:55:37,970 --> 00:55:34,800
understand

1320
00:55:40,670 --> 00:55:37,980
it's entering our airspace

1321
00:55:43,130 --> 00:55:40,680
um and but but the threat narrative to

1322
00:55:45,890 --> 00:55:43,140
scare the crap out of people that's the

1323
00:55:47,690 --> 00:55:45,900
part that I'm you know now I'm I'm not

1324
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:47,700
with that I'm not well and there's

1325
00:55:51,230 --> 00:55:49,680
another practical aspect of this too and

1326
00:55:53,630 --> 00:55:51,240
this is based on some conversations I've

1327
00:55:54,589 --> 00:55:53,640
had with a number of individuals

1328
00:55:57,470 --> 00:55:54,599
um

1329
00:55:59,990 --> 00:55:57,480
I've been told that one of the reasons

1330
00:56:01,970 --> 00:56:00,000
why the the to use your your term the

1331
00:56:04,030 --> 00:56:01,980
threat narrative was crafted and why

1332
00:56:08,089 --> 00:56:04,040
this is wrapped in National Defense is

1333
00:56:10,730 --> 00:56:08,099
Imagine Jimmy these individuals uh on

1334
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:10,740
Capitol Hill and they go before the

1335
00:56:14,930 --> 00:56:12,240
Appropriations Committee saying that

1336
00:56:17,089 --> 00:56:14,940
they want money to look at UFOs

1337
00:56:18,829 --> 00:56:17,099
are you more likely to get funding if

1338
00:56:20,450 --> 00:56:18,839
you go up and say you know what we've

1339
00:56:22,010 --> 00:56:20,460
had some interesting UFO sightings and

1340
00:56:23,750 --> 00:56:22,020
we're kind of just personally curious we

1341
00:56:26,510 --> 00:56:23,760
like to have you know two to twenty

1342
00:56:28,370 --> 00:56:26,520
million dollars to investigate this or

1343
00:56:29,990 --> 00:56:28,380
do you think you stand a better chance

1344
00:56:32,809 --> 00:56:30,000
of getting funding to look at it if you

1345
00:56:34,790 --> 00:56:32,819
say we've tracked these objects we have

1346
00:56:36,170 --> 00:56:34,800
some interesting information they

1347
00:56:37,370 --> 00:56:36,180
possibly could pose a threat to the

1348
00:56:40,190 --> 00:56:37,380
United States

1349
00:56:42,349 --> 00:56:40,200
so there's very practical reasons to

1350
00:56:46,190 --> 00:56:42,359
frame it within the National Defense

1351
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:46,200
threat aspect because now it makes

1352
00:56:50,210 --> 00:56:48,000
people stand up and take notice versus

1353
00:56:52,130 --> 00:56:50,220
we're just scientifically curious about

1354
00:56:55,150 --> 00:56:52,140
UFOs we like to have some federal money

1355
00:57:02,210 --> 00:56:57,950
it's about to go to another level David

1356
00:57:05,809 --> 00:57:02,220
when uh when the web telescope comes

1357
00:57:09,230 --> 00:57:05,819
back with some scientific data of of a

1358
00:57:11,470 --> 00:57:09,240
biosphere and uh you know a technical

1359
00:57:13,730 --> 00:57:11,480
signature

1360
00:57:15,109 --> 00:57:13,740
about this yeah with our friend Linda

1361
00:57:17,690 --> 00:57:15,119
Howe last night we were having a phone

1362
00:57:21,710 --> 00:57:17,700
conversation about this very topic yeah

1363
00:57:23,930 --> 00:57:21,720
that that it's going to happen it's just

1364
00:57:26,930 --> 00:57:23,940
a it's just a matter of when and I have

1365
00:57:29,210 --> 00:57:26,940
the sneaky suspicion it's got a little

1366
00:57:31,609 --> 00:57:29,220
inside info not much and so does Linda

1367
00:57:34,730 --> 00:57:31,619
and and I know that's what you guys were

1368
00:57:38,450 --> 00:57:34,740
talking about last night Trappist right

1369
00:57:39,890 --> 00:57:38,460
um Trappist one uh that there's uh an

1370
00:57:42,049 --> 00:57:39,900
announcement that is going to happen

1371
00:57:44,510 --> 00:57:42,059
soon they are focused on that well when

1372
00:57:46,370 --> 00:57:44,520
that does you're going to have all of

1373
00:57:48,230 --> 00:57:46,380
the funding that you want NASA is going

1374
00:57:49,790 --> 00:57:48,240
to have all of the funding that they can

1375
00:57:53,390 --> 00:57:49,800
ask for they're going to have more money

1376
00:57:55,250 --> 00:57:53,400
than they can spend and it it's I think

1377
00:57:57,470 --> 00:57:55,260
it's all going to be without a threat

1378
00:57:59,690 --> 00:57:57,480
narrative I think that we're okay with

1379
00:58:01,970 --> 00:57:59,700
the science right well and at that point

1380
00:58:05,450 --> 00:58:01,980
to your to your your statement we can

1381
00:58:09,049 --> 00:58:05,460
abandon the whole threat they and just

1382
00:58:11,809 --> 00:58:09,059
move on from Pure scientific inquiry not

1383
00:58:13,849 --> 00:58:11,819
from a a point of National Defense

1384
00:58:16,790 --> 00:58:13,859
stay right there let's take a quick

1385
00:58:19,069 --> 00:58:16,800
break our guest tonight David Marler the

1386
00:58:23,630 --> 00:58:19,079
absolute very best I'm your host Jimmy

1387
00:58:27,770 --> 00:58:25,430
this is Jimmy Church of Fade to Black

1388
00:58:30,049 --> 00:58:27,780
please visit all of our sponsors we're

1389
00:58:31,849 --> 00:58:30,059
taking a quick break here all of the

1390
00:58:34,910 --> 00:58:31,859
links are below

1391
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and we'll be right back

1392
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check out Billy Carson's Forbidden

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forbiddenknowledge.com or

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forbiddenknowledge.tv that's the number

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I will be hosting an M seeing the

1408
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1409
00:59:23,329 --> 00:59:20,400
through the 13th at The Lax Hilton right

1410
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here in Los Angeles California 200

1411
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speakers including Linda Moulton Howe

1412
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David Wolfe over 200 vendors special

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and hang out with all of us tickets and

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info at consciouslifeexpo.com the links

1419
00:59:49,609 --> 00:59:46,260
are below

1420
00:59:52,789 --> 00:59:49,619
on Saturday April 1st that's right April

1421
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:52,799
Fool's Day 2023 I will be hosting the

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00:59:58,490 --> 00:59:54,960
peripod festival at the Hyatt Regency

1423
01:00:00,950 --> 00:59:58,500
right here in Valencia California it's a

1424
01:00:04,010 --> 01:00:00,960
live one-day podcast Awards it's a film

1425
01:00:05,990 --> 01:00:04,020
festival it's a full-on media event

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1427
01:00:10,190 --> 01:00:07,500
it's going to be a Lifetime Achievement

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01:00:12,170 --> 01:00:10,200
Award presented to Linda Moulton Howe

1429
01:00:14,750 --> 01:00:12,180
right now you can submit your podcast

1430
01:00:17,450 --> 01:00:14,760
your film your TV series any of your

1431
01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:17,460
paranormal media for consideration you

1432
01:00:22,630 --> 01:00:19,440
can do all of that on the links below

1433
01:00:24,530 --> 01:00:22,640
for info and tickets go to

1434
01:00:27,609 --> 01:00:24,540
parapodfilmfest.com that's

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01:00:33,289 --> 01:00:31,670
April 7th through the 14th 2023 I'll be

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01:00:36,230 --> 01:00:33,299
hosting and presenting on the hidden

1437
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:36,240
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1440
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top a giant water slide you've got to

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check out the Navigator of the season

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it's amazing we've got Scott Walter Adam

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1445
01:00:57,289 --> 01:00:54,960
Langdon and another 12 amazing speakers

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01:00:58,750 --> 01:00:57,299
and presenters it's all simple to do

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01:01:01,130 --> 01:00:58,760
just visit

1448
01:01:04,849 --> 01:01:01,140
divinetravels.com forward slash hidden

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01:01:07,130 --> 01:01:04,859
secrets 2023 you know you want to go on

1450
01:01:10,549 --> 01:01:07,140
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1451
01:01:13,370 --> 01:01:10,559
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01:01:17,450 --> 01:01:15,200
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01:01:20,750 --> 01:01:19,319
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1456
01:01:22,849 --> 01:01:20,760
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1457
01:01:25,490 --> 01:01:22,859
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1459
01:01:35,870 --> 01:01:29,280
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1460
01:01:42,410 --> 01:01:38,750
all right welcome back I am your host

1461
01:01:46,789 --> 01:01:42,420
Jimmy church and our guest tonight David

1462
01:01:51,650 --> 01:01:46,799
Marler and uh historian author and you

1463
01:01:54,230 --> 01:01:51,660
know David here's um uh like it or not

1464
01:01:56,569 --> 01:01:54,240
you're the black triangle guy and you're

1465
01:01:58,609 --> 01:01:56,579
never you're never that's it that's it

1466
01:02:00,770 --> 01:01:58,619
you're gonna wear that uh forever and

1467
01:02:03,230 --> 01:02:00,780
and I love that about you

1468
01:02:06,589 --> 01:02:03,240
um and and and I I kind of want to talk

1469
01:02:10,490 --> 01:02:06,599
about that for a second because if you

1470
01:02:12,230 --> 01:02:10,500
uh very impressively look behind you and

1471
01:02:13,789 --> 01:02:12,240
look at all of that data all of the res

1472
01:02:17,329 --> 01:02:13,799
all of the Articles all of the books

1473
01:02:19,250 --> 01:02:17,339
I've been and uh historically and I

1474
01:02:21,230 --> 01:02:19,260
believe that everything went down the

1475
01:02:26,329 --> 01:02:21,240
way that it went down

1476
01:02:31,490 --> 01:02:26,339
um the the periods of change with the

1477
01:02:33,710 --> 01:02:31,500
phenomena and if we we go back to uh

1478
01:02:36,289 --> 01:02:33,720
because we change too we go through our

1479
01:02:38,210 --> 01:02:36,299
evolutionary processes

1480
01:02:40,549 --> 01:02:38,220
um things are way different today than

1481
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:40,559
they were in the 1950s

1482
01:02:45,589 --> 01:02:43,680
um the 1900s right it's it's a different

1483
01:02:47,390 --> 01:02:45,599
world today and we go through these

1484
01:02:50,030 --> 01:02:47,400
processes

1485
01:02:52,210 --> 01:02:50,040
um including with our own uh Space

1486
01:02:56,390 --> 01:02:52,220
Program

1487
01:03:00,430 --> 01:02:56,400
Aerospace and and so forth now

1488
01:03:04,329 --> 01:03:00,440
if we go back let's start in that in the

1489
01:03:08,390 --> 01:03:04,339
1940s let's let's start there because

1490
01:03:12,049 --> 01:03:08,400
the descriptions of what was happening

1491
01:03:14,870 --> 01:03:12,059
then was what we would call in a classic

1492
01:03:16,370 --> 01:03:14,880
sense not nuts and bolts right physical

1493
01:03:20,870 --> 01:03:16,380
Craft

1494
01:03:23,809 --> 01:03:20,880
um a varying descriptions uh of shapes

1495
01:03:26,930 --> 01:03:23,819
and stuff but certainly Flying Saucer uh

1496
01:03:28,789 --> 01:03:26,940
comes to mind absolutely and and we went

1497
01:03:32,510 --> 01:03:28,799
through some changes all the way through

1498
01:03:35,270 --> 01:03:32,520
to today we did we did a good 15 20

1499
01:03:39,170 --> 01:03:35,280
years of black triangles man yeah and

1500
01:03:41,690 --> 01:03:39,180
and and I would dare to say if you go

1501
01:03:45,109 --> 01:03:41,700
back to the Rhodes photographs in

1502
01:03:47,870 --> 01:03:45,119
Phoenix in 1947 those look like black

1503
01:03:49,849 --> 01:03:47,880
triangles to me uh yeah it's a different

1504
01:03:52,609 --> 01:03:49,859
it's a different shape to those crafts

1505
01:03:55,789 --> 01:03:52,619
so it's not like the the black triangles

1506
01:03:59,089 --> 01:03:55,799
were Belgium right right no no no and in

1507
01:04:02,030 --> 01:03:59,099
fact during in covid I went through the

1508
01:04:06,650 --> 01:04:02,040
nicap kufos Case Files primarily nycap

1509
01:04:08,390 --> 01:04:06,660
case files from 1947 up until 1977

1510
01:04:10,010 --> 01:04:08,400
because a British researcher had made a

1511
01:04:12,410 --> 01:04:10,020
comment on a documentary that I was on

1512
01:04:17,450 --> 01:04:12,420
that well these triangles really didn't

1513
01:04:19,309 --> 01:04:17,460
appear until 1977 late 1970s and he then

1514
01:04:20,990 --> 01:04:19,319
goes on to State and that just so

1515
01:04:22,849 --> 01:04:21,000
happened to coincide with the release of

1516
01:04:24,829 --> 01:04:22,859
the movie Star Wars and he goes on to

1517
01:04:27,289 --> 01:04:24,839
allude to the fact that the triangles

1518
01:04:29,270 --> 01:04:27,299
that people saw were basically inspired

1519
01:04:31,190 --> 01:04:29,280
culturally by people seeing the Star

1520
01:04:33,829 --> 01:04:31,200
Destroyer in Star Wars

1521
01:04:35,930 --> 01:04:33,839
and I'm sitting there much like I did

1522
01:04:37,910 --> 01:04:35,940
when I when I uh was thinking about

1523
01:04:39,170 --> 01:04:37,920
writing my book Jimmy people were saying

1524
01:04:40,970 --> 01:04:39,180
well these triangles are new these

1525
01:04:44,270 --> 01:04:40,980
triangles are new and I was sitting

1526
01:04:46,849 --> 01:04:44,280
around with news clippings and articles

1527
01:04:49,789 --> 01:04:46,859
and you know various reports civilian

1528
01:04:51,829 --> 01:04:49,799
Case Files of triangles in the 1950s and

1529
01:04:53,329 --> 01:04:51,839
1960s I'm like no that that's why I

1530
01:04:55,730 --> 01:04:53,339
wrote the book was to try to set the

1531
01:04:57,829 --> 01:04:55,740
record straight here are cases that the

1532
01:04:59,569 --> 01:04:57,839
general public isn't aware of here's

1533
01:05:02,569 --> 01:04:59,579
where I derived all this information and

1534
01:05:04,370 --> 01:05:02,579
so during covet I decided I wanted to

1535
01:05:06,289 --> 01:05:04,380
challenge this individual but I want to

1536
01:05:08,270 --> 01:05:06,299
challenge him with information not just

1537
01:05:10,010 --> 01:05:08,280
say he said she said this type of thing

1538
01:05:11,289 --> 01:05:10,020
oh you could just punch him in the

1539
01:05:14,809 --> 01:05:11,299
throat

1540
01:05:17,049 --> 01:05:14,819
karate chop that's not my style no it's

1541
01:05:19,130 --> 01:05:17,059
not myself

1542
01:05:22,789 --> 01:05:19,140
you know what I mean but that's that's

1543
01:05:25,930 --> 01:05:22,799
the frustration it's just like and so I

1544
01:05:30,349 --> 01:05:25,940
went through 47 to 77 and I found over

1545
01:05:32,089 --> 01:05:30,359
102 triangular UFO reports in the nycap

1546
01:05:33,789 --> 01:05:32,099
Case Files primary early a few in the

1547
01:05:37,250 --> 01:05:33,799
kufos Case Files

1548
01:05:39,530 --> 01:05:37,260
demonstrating the triangles in Flight

1549
01:05:41,329 --> 01:05:39,540
similar lighting characteristics similar

1550
01:05:44,270 --> 01:05:41,339
flight dynamics that I outlined in my

1551
01:05:45,770 --> 01:05:44,280
book that I published in 2013. so it was

1552
01:05:47,210 --> 01:05:45,780
the best outside validation for the

1553
01:05:50,450 --> 01:05:47,220
research because I wrote the book based

1554
01:05:52,329 --> 01:05:50,460
on the data I had at the time now I had

1555
01:05:55,370 --> 01:05:52,339
this on you know unafforded access

1556
01:05:57,049 --> 01:05:55,380
unrestricted access to these files I

1557
01:05:58,910 --> 01:05:57,059
thought during covet I'm going to go

1558
01:06:01,370 --> 01:05:58,920
through and I went through all of the

1559
01:06:03,170 --> 01:06:01,380
thousands of Case Files news clippings I

1560
01:06:05,450 --> 01:06:03,180
mean this is real research I mean it's

1561
01:06:07,490 --> 01:06:05,460
tedious it's boring but it can be

1562
01:06:09,349 --> 01:06:07,500
rewarding at the end of the day and I

1563
01:06:10,789 --> 01:06:09,359
put together all of these and that was

1564
01:06:13,010 --> 01:06:10,799
my lecture that I gave across the

1565
01:06:14,630 --> 01:06:13,020
country and the lecture in its entirety

1566
01:06:15,950 --> 01:06:14,640
is actually on my website if anybody

1567
01:06:19,270 --> 01:06:15,960
would like to go to my video section

1568
01:06:25,370 --> 01:06:19,280
they can see all of this material

1569
01:06:28,670 --> 01:06:25,380
the um uh so again the the the the the

1570
01:06:31,370 --> 01:06:28,680
um how do I how do I say this the the

1571
01:06:34,150 --> 01:06:31,380
periods the historical periods where we

1572
01:06:37,910 --> 01:06:34,160
had you know flying saucers in the 50s

1573
01:06:39,710 --> 01:06:37,920
uh different types of flying saucers in

1574
01:06:42,410 --> 01:06:39,720
the 60s

1575
01:06:46,490 --> 01:06:42,420
um certainly uh the black triangle wave

1576
01:06:50,270 --> 01:06:46,500
uh that that started in the late 70s uh

1577
01:06:51,950 --> 01:06:50,280
80s uh period which again certainly all

1578
01:06:54,069 --> 01:06:51,960
of this overlaps because we've had

1579
01:06:56,690 --> 01:06:54,079
flying saucers in in

1580
01:07:00,370 --> 01:06:56,700
2010s these aren't discrete categories

1581
01:07:04,430 --> 01:07:00,380
they overlap to your point but but

1582
01:07:07,730 --> 01:07:04,440
historically you know and and today uh

1583
01:07:10,670 --> 01:07:07,740
we're seeing a lot of uh people

1584
01:07:13,130 --> 01:07:10,680
reporting uh including myself in an

1585
01:07:17,990 --> 01:07:13,140
interdimensional aspect to this right

1586
01:07:19,849 --> 01:07:18,000
and then if we take where we are today

1587
01:07:21,589 --> 01:07:19,859
um or some of these craft may not be

1588
01:07:24,349 --> 01:07:21,599
physical they may you know nuts and

1589
01:07:27,710 --> 01:07:24,359
bolts right but we've had those same

1590
01:07:29,990 --> 01:07:27,720
reports in in the 1950s it just appeared

1591
01:07:32,390 --> 01:07:30,000
in the sky and then it just disappeared

1592
01:07:34,789 --> 01:07:32,400
absolutely yeah I mean again none of

1593
01:07:36,410 --> 01:07:34,799
these things are new we we see this time

1594
01:07:39,349 --> 01:07:36,420
and time again in some of the historic

1595
01:07:40,549 --> 01:07:39,359
reports and uh you know I've had many

1596
01:07:42,950 --> 01:07:40,559
people say

1597
01:07:45,109 --> 01:07:42,960
I saw this triangle within the last year

1598
01:07:46,730 --> 01:07:45,119
or two and I think it was military and

1599
01:07:48,650 --> 01:07:46,740
my response is well if it's been in the

1600
01:07:50,630 --> 01:07:48,660
last you know 10 years or so you might

1601
01:07:52,549 --> 01:07:50,640
be right I think what we're dealing with

1602
01:07:55,430 --> 01:07:52,559
today is maybe a combination of someone

1603
01:07:59,390 --> 01:07:55,440
else's technology and we're also seeing

1604
01:08:02,029 --> 01:07:59,400
military triangles uh but I like to look

1605
01:08:03,950 --> 01:08:02,039
back at the history I found some news

1606
01:08:06,890 --> 01:08:03,960
clippings here in the nycap case files

1607
01:08:10,430 --> 01:08:06,900
from Hazleton Pennsylvania in November

1608
01:08:13,430 --> 01:08:10,440
of 57 and they described flying triangle

1609
01:08:15,890 --> 01:08:13,440
seen in the sky described as black

1610
01:08:18,289 --> 01:08:15,900
triangular with a bright light at each

1611
01:08:21,169 --> 01:08:18,299
point and the object flew and then

1612
01:08:23,890 --> 01:08:21,179
reverse Direction and made Flat pivot

1613
01:08:29,349 --> 01:08:23,900
turns just like the modern accounts in

1614
01:08:34,669 --> 01:08:29,359
1957 1957 Hazleton Pennsylvania in in

1615
01:08:37,430 --> 01:08:34,679
1995 96 I had my black triangle sighting

1616
01:08:39,769 --> 01:08:37,440
that I took a picture of I don't know if

1617
01:08:40,910 --> 01:08:39,779
I've ever showed you we talked about it

1618
01:08:44,030 --> 01:08:40,920
but I don't think I've seen the the

1619
01:08:46,370 --> 01:08:44,040
picture the the picture just shows a

1620
01:08:47,930 --> 01:08:46,380
little black dot right but but here's

1621
01:08:51,890 --> 01:08:47,940
the thing

1622
01:08:54,789 --> 01:08:51,900
um what uh excuse me

1623
01:08:59,329 --> 01:08:54,799
we're out in Monterey you know

1624
01:09:01,669 --> 01:08:59,339
in the sand right on the beach and one

1625
01:09:04,370 --> 01:09:01,679
of my friends sees uh we're taking

1626
01:09:07,010 --> 01:09:04,380
pictures I have a 35 millimeter

1627
01:09:10,370 --> 01:09:07,020
disposable camera before the age of

1628
01:09:12,229 --> 01:09:10,380
digital and he goes what's that and what

1629
01:09:16,309 --> 01:09:12,239
was amazing

1630
01:09:19,189 --> 01:09:16,319
um uh in this sighting was that it was

1631
01:09:22,010 --> 01:09:19,199
uh it was a black dot moving

1632
01:09:24,470 --> 01:09:22,020
um way way way way way high I don't know

1633
01:09:27,289 --> 01:09:24,480
60 000 feet or something but you could

1634
01:09:29,410 --> 01:09:27,299
see it moving across the clouds

1635
01:09:33,110 --> 01:09:29,420
and uh a

1636
01:09:35,510 --> 01:09:33,120
crazy high rate of speed because

1637
01:09:37,910 --> 01:09:35,520
all of this when you look up and you see

1638
01:09:40,789 --> 01:09:37,920
a commercial aircraft or something up

1639
01:09:43,550 --> 01:09:40,799
high it's slow right it's going 600

1640
01:09:47,030 --> 01:09:43,560
miles an hour right but it's slow this

1641
01:09:49,370 --> 01:09:47,040
is like right going across and then it

1642
01:09:53,570 --> 01:09:49,380
it came to the edge of the cloud and

1643
01:09:55,970 --> 01:09:53,580
stopped and that's what all of us went

1644
01:09:57,350 --> 01:09:55,980
whoa and it's just a black dot and I

1645
01:10:00,050 --> 01:09:57,360
take the camera and I snapped this

1646
01:10:02,630 --> 01:10:00,060
picture I snapped like four right it's

1647
01:10:03,950 --> 01:10:02,640
only in one image and uh but anyway then

1648
01:10:06,410 --> 01:10:03,960
it went

1649
01:10:09,709 --> 01:10:06,420
straight up right right into the blue

1650
01:10:11,750 --> 01:10:09,719
sky and and disappeared that that was

1651
01:10:14,330 --> 01:10:11,760
pretty crazy now it wasn't until months

1652
01:10:16,250 --> 01:10:14,340
later when I was looking at it I got the

1653
01:10:18,590 --> 01:10:16,260
the role of film but I forgot about it

1654
01:10:21,530 --> 01:10:18,600
I've completely forgot that this even

1655
01:10:23,090 --> 01:10:21,540
happened and and um so I get the you

1656
01:10:23,750 --> 01:10:23,100
know and I get the jeweler's Loop and I

1657
01:10:26,870 --> 01:10:23,760
look

1658
01:10:29,570 --> 01:10:26,880
it's it's a black triangle yeah you know

1659
01:10:32,270 --> 01:10:29,580
right there in The nightcap Case Files I

1660
01:10:34,189 --> 01:10:32,280
believe it was 65 or 66 those were two

1661
01:10:36,890 --> 01:10:34,199
big years for triangles looking through

1662
01:10:39,830 --> 01:10:36,900
the files uh there was a report of a

1663
01:10:42,110 --> 01:10:39,840
silver triangle with bright lights at

1664
01:10:45,169 --> 01:10:42,120
each point that was observed flying

1665
01:10:46,790 --> 01:10:45,179
through the sky and the witness stated I

1666
01:10:48,470 --> 01:10:46,800
just casually looked up and didn't think

1667
01:10:50,630 --> 01:10:48,480
much of it I thought it was an aircraft

1668
01:10:53,050 --> 01:10:50,640
and exactly what you said Jimmy he said

1669
01:10:55,850 --> 01:10:53,060
until it stopped in midair

1670
01:10:58,189 --> 01:10:55,860
and then it started moving again but it

1671
01:11:00,890 --> 01:10:58,199
just stopped on a dime as it was moving

1672
01:11:02,330 --> 01:11:00,900
and it started moving again yeah my

1673
01:11:05,530 --> 01:11:02,340
memory

1674
01:11:10,130 --> 01:11:05,540
um and it's all it's hazy now okay so

1675
01:11:14,450 --> 01:11:10,140
don't quote me sure it slowed down

1676
01:11:17,689 --> 01:11:14,460
I remember it it it it's like is it

1677
01:11:20,149 --> 01:11:17,699
gonna stop I remember that that in my

1678
01:11:23,090 --> 01:11:20,159
thought then it did it stopped and it

1679
01:11:26,510 --> 01:11:23,100
didn't it didn't go right and and no it

1680
01:11:28,970 --> 01:11:26,520
didn't do that it it kind of petered out

1681
01:11:31,790 --> 01:11:28,980
and and stopped at at the edge of the

1682
01:11:33,950 --> 01:11:31,800
cloud which again was just was just

1683
01:11:37,070 --> 01:11:33,960
strange I thought

1684
01:11:39,709 --> 01:11:37,080
I mean at the time I thought it was a

1685
01:11:42,229 --> 01:11:39,719
satellite right which doesn't make any

1686
01:11:43,850 --> 01:11:42,239
sense to have it in the atmosphere but

1687
01:11:46,130 --> 01:11:43,860
the way that your mind's trying to find

1688
01:11:50,810 --> 01:11:46,140
some type of explanation right I didn't

1689
01:11:53,270 --> 01:11:50,820
go UFO you know right and um I I here's

1690
01:11:56,450 --> 01:11:53,280
the here's the other uh really trippy

1691
01:11:58,310 --> 01:11:56,460
part so I was with four friends uh three

1692
01:11:59,169 --> 01:11:58,320
friends four of us three friends of

1693
01:12:03,350 --> 01:11:59,179
myself

1694
01:12:04,850 --> 01:12:03,360
and uh it was about 10 years ago all of

1695
01:12:07,070 --> 01:12:04,860
this got together

1696
01:12:09,709 --> 01:12:07,080
at this conference none of you have a

1697
01:12:11,810 --> 01:12:09,719
music is sure this is a totally

1698
01:12:14,390 --> 01:12:11,820
different one and I go hey man so

1699
01:12:17,750 --> 01:12:14,400
they're all asking me so what's it like

1700
01:12:20,450 --> 01:12:17,760
man you know TV and radio and all this

1701
01:12:22,430 --> 01:12:20,460
stuff and uh that was about five years

1702
01:12:24,110 --> 01:12:22,440
ago anyway

1703
01:12:25,310 --> 01:12:24,120
so we're talking I said hey do you guys

1704
01:12:29,330 --> 01:12:25,320
remember

1705
01:12:31,790 --> 01:12:29,340
back in 96 when we took that picture you

1706
01:12:34,430 --> 01:12:31,800
know out of Monterey my friends are all

1707
01:12:36,169 --> 01:12:34,440
in the picture right and uh

1708
01:12:38,750 --> 01:12:36,179
what are you talking about

1709
01:12:41,510 --> 01:12:38,760
I said that thing you pointed and you

1710
01:12:42,649 --> 01:12:41,520
said yeah I kind of remember it yeah

1711
01:12:45,410 --> 01:12:42,659
they didn't

1712
01:12:48,890 --> 01:12:45,420
you know it wasn't it wasn't some big

1713
01:12:51,669 --> 01:12:48,900
moment to them interesting and well but

1714
01:12:54,950 --> 01:12:51,679
I forgot about it too David yeah

1715
01:12:56,390 --> 01:12:54,960
until the uh I mean we had a weekend in

1716
01:12:59,209 --> 01:12:56,400
front of us we went out and we were

1717
01:13:01,070 --> 01:12:59,219
doing stuff and this moment happened it

1718
01:13:03,649 --> 01:13:01,080
flew away and it was gone and it was the

1719
01:13:05,270 --> 01:13:03,659
end of it until uh I you know I I

1720
01:13:07,330 --> 01:13:05,280
developed the film I would have never

1721
01:13:10,610 --> 01:13:07,340
remembered it

1722
01:13:12,649 --> 01:13:10,620
it's so funny when I wrote my book uh

1723
01:13:14,510 --> 01:13:12,659
one of the things I wasn't expecting my

1724
01:13:17,209 --> 01:13:14,520
idea was get get the information out

1725
01:13:19,970 --> 01:13:17,219
there and what I still received to this

1726
01:13:22,970 --> 01:13:19,980
day are numerous people reaching out

1727
01:13:25,130 --> 01:13:22,980
writing me sending me their reports uh

1728
01:13:26,870 --> 01:13:25,140
their sketches of triangles that they've

1729
01:13:29,390 --> 01:13:26,880
seen and one of the first people that

1730
01:13:31,850 --> 01:13:29,400
reached out to me I'll never forget her

1731
01:13:34,729 --> 01:13:31,860
first name's Judy she reached out to me

1732
01:13:36,890 --> 01:13:34,739
she lived out east and she said I'd love

1733
01:13:39,169 --> 01:13:36,900
to chat with you by phone so we arranged

1734
01:13:42,110 --> 01:13:39,179
a phone call and she was almost on the

1735
01:13:43,729 --> 01:13:42,120
verge of tears Jimmy and she said I just

1736
01:13:46,010 --> 01:13:43,739
want to let you know that I had a

1737
01:13:47,510 --> 01:13:46,020
sighting back in the 80s of a large

1738
01:13:48,830 --> 01:13:47,520
triangle and I wasn't alone there was

1739
01:13:50,930 --> 01:13:48,840
another woman there we were both picking

1740
01:13:53,390 --> 01:13:50,940
up our kids from a karate class and it

1741
01:13:55,790 --> 01:13:53,400
was up in this cabin up in this kind of

1742
01:13:57,290 --> 01:13:55,800
secluded wooded area and she said we saw

1743
01:13:58,610 --> 01:13:57,300
this thing directly overhead and she

1744
01:14:00,830 --> 01:13:58,620
goes I remember going home and telling

1745
01:14:03,050 --> 01:14:00,840
my husband and I told my family and a

1746
01:14:05,330 --> 01:14:03,060
few of my co-workers and they either

1747
01:14:07,370 --> 01:14:05,340
made fun of me or they just kind of

1748
01:14:09,530 --> 01:14:07,380
rolled their eyes and were dismissive

1749
01:14:13,370 --> 01:14:09,540
about the whole thing and she goes for

1750
01:14:14,990 --> 01:14:13,380
years I knew I saw what I saw but I had

1751
01:14:16,070 --> 01:14:15,000
to deal with that and she goes then I

1752
01:14:19,669 --> 01:14:16,080
read your book

1753
01:14:21,590 --> 01:14:19,679
and you gave me validation and I took

1754
01:14:23,870 --> 01:14:21,600
that book and I showed my family I

1755
01:14:25,550 --> 01:14:23,880
showed my friends and I said look I'm

1756
01:14:28,490 --> 01:14:25,560
not the only one that's reported these

1757
01:14:30,229 --> 01:14:28,500
things and I didn't realize the book

1758
01:14:31,669 --> 01:14:30,239
would would resonate with people on such

1759
01:14:33,590 --> 01:14:31,679
a personal level like that but that was

1760
01:14:36,110 --> 01:14:33,600
the first of a number of phone calls and

1761
01:14:38,630 --> 01:14:36,120
emails I've had from people that use

1762
01:14:41,750 --> 01:14:38,640
that word you you validated my citing

1763
01:14:43,250 --> 01:14:41,760
for me I knew I saw what I saw but to

1764
01:14:46,189 --> 01:14:43,260
know that other reports are out there

1765
01:14:47,030 --> 01:14:46,199
like mine really meant a lot to me how

1766
01:14:51,410 --> 01:14:47,040
many

1767
01:14:53,870 --> 01:14:51,420
like mine are are just forgotten oh

1768
01:14:55,669 --> 01:14:53,880
I again I I said it earlier I think

1769
01:14:58,490 --> 01:14:55,679
we're dealing with table scraps yeah

1770
01:15:02,050 --> 01:14:58,500
yeah yeah just for just percentage Yeah

1771
01:15:04,250 --> 01:15:02,060
you know I mean how many times a day

1772
01:15:06,649 --> 01:15:04,260
does somebody go out and see something

1773
01:15:09,350 --> 01:15:06,659
and go oh that's strange and then that's

1774
01:15:12,229 --> 01:15:09,360
it they finish their shopping their kids

1775
01:15:14,750 --> 01:15:12,239
from school do whatever and it's it's

1776
01:15:16,310 --> 01:15:14,760
it's it's gone there's other things that

1777
01:15:18,709 --> 01:15:16,320
are more important that take up your

1778
01:15:20,270 --> 01:15:18,719
memory space well and this this touches

1779
01:15:23,090 --> 01:15:20,280
on a whole other aspect which I find

1780
01:15:25,610 --> 01:15:23,100
fascinating my degrees in Psychology I

1781
01:15:27,890 --> 01:15:25,620
love to understand how people react to a

1782
01:15:29,930 --> 01:15:27,900
UFO sighting and exactly as you

1783
01:15:31,430 --> 01:15:29,940
demonstrated Jimmy I've talked to people

1784
01:15:34,550 --> 01:15:31,440
where there might be three people there

1785
01:15:36,890 --> 01:15:34,560
they witness the exact same thing one

1786
01:15:38,870 --> 01:15:36,900
was scared the other one wasn't awe and

1787
01:15:41,209 --> 01:15:38,880
the other one was ambivalent

1788
01:15:43,970 --> 01:15:41,219
it's interesting how we can process

1789
01:15:46,850 --> 01:15:43,980
things so differently yet we're being

1790
01:15:47,810 --> 01:15:46,860
subjected to the exact same stimuli do

1791
01:15:57,470 --> 01:15:47,820
you think

1792
01:15:59,330 --> 01:15:57,480
is revealed to specific individuals

1793
01:16:01,790 --> 01:15:59,340
where you can have a group of people

1794
01:16:04,729 --> 01:16:01,800
there and only one person sees it and

1795
01:16:07,130 --> 01:16:04,739
and with intention I've heard so many

1796
01:16:10,250 --> 01:16:07,140
accounts like that that I it's hard to

1797
01:16:12,590 --> 01:16:10,260
just summarily discount I think in some

1798
01:16:14,990 --> 01:16:12,600
cases yeah I mean I hate to say it it

1799
01:16:17,510 --> 01:16:15,000
was meant for them or it was meant for

1800
01:16:19,189 --> 01:16:17,520
that person and maybe not others I've

1801
01:16:22,550 --> 01:16:19,199
heard so many of those accounts over 30

1802
01:16:24,350 --> 01:16:22,560
plus years now uh it's hard to just

1803
01:16:27,250 --> 01:16:24,360
summarily discount all of that testimony

1804
01:16:32,450 --> 01:16:27,260
well and what about uh a Consciousness

1805
01:16:34,669 --> 01:16:32,460
you know mind meld you know Jedi I I

1806
01:16:36,410 --> 01:16:34,679
don't negate I don't negate the

1807
01:16:38,510 --> 01:16:36,420
importance of Consciousness and all of

1808
01:16:40,490 --> 01:16:38,520
this and a lot of people may be shocked

1809
01:16:42,229 --> 01:16:40,500
to hear me say this I was actually at

1810
01:16:44,630 --> 01:16:42,239
the Ozark Mountain UFO conference in

1811
01:16:46,430 --> 01:16:44,640
April where I gave my lecture and Mr Ray

1812
01:16:48,950 --> 01:16:46,440
Hernandez was there and of course his

1813
01:16:51,290 --> 01:16:48,960
focus is on Consciousness and he had

1814
01:16:53,030 --> 01:16:51,300
made a few little uh Jabs at nuts and

1815
01:16:54,530 --> 01:16:53,040
bolts researchers during his lecture

1816
01:16:55,790 --> 01:16:54,540
which a few people came up so I really

1817
01:16:56,990 --> 01:16:55,800
don't think that that was nice that he

1818
01:16:58,970 --> 01:16:57,000
did that I said that's all right I said

1819
01:17:02,030 --> 01:16:58,980
we're all entitled their own opinions I

1820
01:17:03,950 --> 01:17:02,040
said but because just because I I focus

1821
01:17:06,350 --> 01:17:03,960
on a nuts and bolts approach doesn't

1822
01:17:08,810 --> 01:17:06,360
mean that I don't personally accept that

1823
01:17:11,330 --> 01:17:08,820
there's Consciousness as part of this

1824
01:17:13,550 --> 01:17:11,340
equation it's just not my area of focus

1825
01:17:14,990 --> 01:17:13,560
if we all focused on the same area we

1826
01:17:17,090 --> 01:17:15,000
would probably get nowhere it's good

1827
01:17:19,970 --> 01:17:17,100
that we have people that are focusing on

1828
01:17:23,630 --> 01:17:19,980
discrete aspects of the UFO subject well

1829
01:17:24,770 --> 01:17:23,640
it there's two the universe is just too

1830
01:17:28,669 --> 01:17:24,780
damn big

1831
01:17:31,189 --> 01:17:28,679
there there's got to be every it's like

1832
01:17:33,470 --> 01:17:31,199
the you know it's like the bar the

1833
01:17:36,229 --> 01:17:33,480
lounge in Star Wars right when you walk

1834
01:17:39,050 --> 01:17:36,239
in and you see every type of

1835
01:17:41,930 --> 01:17:39,060
um have you seen the movie Valerian I

1836
01:17:44,990 --> 01:17:41,940
have not okay watch the movie Valerian

1837
01:17:46,250 --> 01:17:45,000
there's an intro uh the intro to the

1838
01:17:48,890 --> 01:17:46,260
film

1839
01:17:51,830 --> 01:17:48,900
um it's dealing with the ISS that

1840
01:17:53,570 --> 01:17:51,840
eventually grows uh bigger and bigger

1841
01:17:56,209 --> 01:17:53,580
and bigger and then

1842
01:17:59,330 --> 01:17:56,219
et starts showing up we have all of

1843
01:18:02,330 --> 01:17:59,340
these uh countries from around the world

1844
01:18:04,610 --> 01:18:02,340
are visiting and it's it's set to uh

1845
01:18:08,689 --> 01:18:04,620
David Bowie's Space Oddity it's really

1846
01:18:12,649 --> 01:18:08,699
it's really a a a great piece of of of

1847
01:18:15,709 --> 01:18:12,659
of work there at the beginning anyway

1848
01:18:17,930 --> 01:18:15,719
um every type of creature that you can

1849
01:18:20,990 --> 01:18:17,940
imagine is walking through the door

1850
01:18:23,930 --> 01:18:21,000
right to shake hands uh with humans

1851
01:18:26,270 --> 01:18:23,940
right that is one of the best examples

1852
01:18:28,250 --> 01:18:26,280
of the way that I envisioned the

1853
01:18:30,649 --> 01:18:28,260
universe is a big place yeah the

1854
01:18:33,110 --> 01:18:30,659
diversity of life I mean it it would

1855
01:18:37,790 --> 01:18:33,120
probably stagger our imaginations

1856
01:18:39,530 --> 01:18:37,800
it has to be that way so it can't be uh

1857
01:18:41,750 --> 01:18:39,540
you know just Consciousness it can't

1858
01:18:45,470 --> 01:18:41,760
just be time travelers from the future

1859
01:18:48,590 --> 01:18:45,480
it's us right it just can't be uh Zeta

1860
01:18:51,890 --> 01:18:48,600
reticuli right and brothers from Orion

1861
01:18:55,430 --> 01:18:51,900
or whatever it's exactly we are talking

1862
01:18:58,790 --> 01:18:55,440
about trillions of planets and and how

1863
01:19:01,550 --> 01:18:58,800
many of those are uh Advanced uh

1864
01:19:04,010 --> 01:19:01,560
extraterrestrial civilizations

1865
01:19:07,189 --> 01:19:04,020
um I don't know but the the number it's

1866
01:19:10,010 --> 01:19:07,199
just it's got to be in the billions well

1867
01:19:11,930 --> 01:19:10,020
not one two or three and Jimmy if that

1868
01:19:14,450 --> 01:19:11,940
doesn't stagger the mind enough then

1869
01:19:16,370 --> 01:19:14,460
let's add on top of it maybe parallel

1870
01:19:17,810 --> 01:19:16,380
Dimensions that coexist throughout all

1871
01:19:20,510 --> 01:19:17,820
of that space

1872
01:19:22,310 --> 01:19:20,520
I mean take everything that we can

1873
01:19:24,770 --> 01:19:22,320
visually conceptualize with the known

1874
01:19:27,410 --> 01:19:24,780
universe and magnify it times three or

1875
01:19:31,370 --> 01:19:27,420
four I mean if there's other dimensions

1876
01:19:33,229 --> 01:19:31,380
that coexist now now what um this is

1877
01:19:34,729 --> 01:19:33,239
great I'm glad the conversation went in

1878
01:19:35,709 --> 01:19:34,739
this direction

1879
01:19:38,930 --> 01:19:35,719
um

1880
01:19:41,330 --> 01:19:38,940
how do you think they're getting here

1881
01:19:45,050 --> 01:19:41,340
I you know again I I hate to speculate

1882
01:19:46,970 --> 01:19:45,060
but uh I I want you to speculate look at

1883
01:19:50,930 --> 01:19:46,980
all that information behind you David

1884
01:19:53,030 --> 01:19:50,940
what you learned I I tend to lean

1885
01:19:55,669 --> 01:19:53,040
towards more of an interdimensional

1886
01:19:58,010 --> 01:19:55,679
explanation as opposed to traveling vast

1887
01:20:00,050 --> 01:19:58,020
distances I think some of the arguments

1888
01:20:03,050 --> 01:20:00,060
that scientists traditionally have put

1889
01:20:05,510 --> 01:20:03,060
forth about the energy requirements and

1890
01:20:08,810 --> 01:20:05,520
you know traveling you can't violate uh

1891
01:20:11,330 --> 01:20:08,820
the speed of light etc etc etc

1892
01:20:13,610 --> 01:20:11,340
um all of those traditional arguments

1893
01:20:15,050 --> 01:20:13,620
are negated if we're dealing with

1894
01:20:17,149 --> 01:20:15,060
something that's just slipping in and

1895
01:20:20,209 --> 01:20:17,159
out of another dimension that coexists

1896
01:20:22,189 --> 01:20:20,219
close to ours I think due to the

1897
01:20:24,590 --> 01:20:22,199
frequency and due to some of the

1898
01:20:27,649 --> 01:20:24,600
descriptions that UFOs have demonstrated

1899
01:20:28,970 --> 01:20:27,659
uh where people say it was almost like

1900
01:20:31,070 --> 01:20:28,980
there was a doorway but you don't see

1901
01:20:33,250 --> 01:20:31,080
the doorway and as this object went in

1902
01:20:35,810 --> 01:20:33,260
you saw it disappear

1903
01:20:37,070 --> 01:20:35,820
but yet there was no doorway it just

1904
01:20:38,689 --> 01:20:37,080
looks like it was going into something

1905
01:20:41,510 --> 01:20:38,699
that you couldn't see

1906
01:20:43,370 --> 01:20:41,520
um many reports like that uh have been

1907
01:20:44,750 --> 01:20:43,380
described to me personally and

1908
01:20:47,510 --> 01:20:44,760
investigators that I've known that have

1909
01:20:49,490 --> 01:20:47,520
investigated cases like that it tends to

1910
01:20:51,470 --> 01:20:49,500
suggest that they're not necessarily

1911
01:20:53,990 --> 01:20:51,480
going to a star system or coming from a

1912
01:20:56,570 --> 01:20:54,000
star system and I think the frequency of

1913
01:20:59,030 --> 01:20:56,580
activity that we're experiencing here to

1914
01:21:01,550 --> 01:20:59,040
me the the interdimensional uh

1915
01:21:03,430 --> 01:21:01,560
explanation or hypothesis tends to I

1916
01:21:08,510 --> 01:21:03,440
think make more sense

1917
01:21:10,910 --> 01:21:08,520
well okay so uh when you say

1918
01:21:13,550 --> 01:21:10,920
interdimensional because yes the the

1919
01:21:14,810 --> 01:21:13,560
answer is absolutely probably most of it

1920
01:21:18,050 --> 01:21:14,820
yes

1921
01:21:21,050 --> 01:21:18,060
um but are is is there a wormhole would

1922
01:21:24,130 --> 01:21:21,060
you call a wormhole an Einstein Rosen

1923
01:21:26,689 --> 01:21:24,140
Bridge interdimensional yeah yes

1924
01:21:28,669 --> 01:21:26,699
artificially constructed I think that

1925
01:21:31,790 --> 01:21:28,679
they may have the ability to create

1926
01:21:33,709 --> 01:21:31,800
these at any time rather than using any

1927
01:21:36,290 --> 01:21:33,719
type of natural Wormhole that exists

1928
01:21:38,030 --> 01:21:36,300
just because again the various locations

1929
01:21:39,890 --> 01:21:38,040
where this has been described it just it

1930
01:21:41,990 --> 01:21:39,900
almost seems like it just can manifest

1931
01:21:45,950 --> 01:21:42,000
itself when whenever they're ready

1932
01:21:48,110 --> 01:21:45,960
uh did you see the news reports uh the

1933
01:21:50,990 --> 01:21:48,120
other day about the Wormhole that was

1934
01:21:53,750 --> 01:21:51,000
created three days ago I missed that

1935
01:21:55,729 --> 01:21:53,760
yeah I've been busy I've been busy with

1936
01:21:57,470 --> 01:21:55,739
media interviews lately so I haven't had

1937
01:22:01,850 --> 01:21:57,480
much time to watch the news they

1938
01:22:04,490 --> 01:22:01,860
actually pulled it off and now uh the

1939
01:22:06,470 --> 01:22:04,500
the researchers behind this the

1940
01:22:09,590 --> 01:22:06,480
physicists behind this said we're ways

1941
01:22:14,750 --> 01:22:09,600
off from a human being traveling through

1942
01:22:18,350 --> 01:22:14,760
this but we did uh we did teleport this

1943
01:22:19,450 --> 01:22:18,360
was their word we did teleport Quantum

1944
01:22:23,149 --> 01:22:19,460
information

1945
01:22:27,709 --> 01:22:23,159
interesting yeah yeah yeah they use the

1946
01:22:29,630 --> 01:22:27,719
word Wormhole they're the they uh uh not

1947
01:22:33,590 --> 01:22:29,640
yours right no no no all in the press

1948
01:22:36,410 --> 01:22:33,600
release it was like wow wow wow I mean

1949
01:22:39,890 --> 01:22:36,420
you know you can have algorithms you can

1950
01:22:41,930 --> 01:22:39,900
have theories you can have math that

1951
01:22:44,990 --> 01:22:41,940
says that this you know the math work

1952
01:22:46,729 --> 01:22:45,000
works so therefore it is possible right

1953
01:22:49,010 --> 01:22:46,739
it's a whole other thing to demonstrate

1954
01:22:50,750 --> 01:22:49,020
this well exactly I mean as they say

1955
01:22:53,149 --> 01:22:50,760
theoretical physics is just that

1956
01:22:54,830 --> 01:22:53,159
theoretical until you can demonstrate it

1957
01:22:59,990 --> 01:22:54,840
now

1958
01:23:06,590 --> 01:23:03,110
we tend to look at things as being

1959
01:23:09,229 --> 01:23:06,600
impossible because of what we know

1960
01:23:10,850 --> 01:23:09,239
right right that's it that's it right

1961
01:23:12,770 --> 01:23:10,860
and so when we talk about you know

1962
01:23:15,050 --> 01:23:12,780
nothing can travel faster than the speed

1963
01:23:17,930 --> 01:23:15,060
of light because Einstein said it is so

1964
01:23:22,189 --> 01:23:17,940
okay well that's what we know

1965
01:23:23,390 --> 01:23:22,199
but what we know what we will know in in

1966
01:23:26,090 --> 01:23:23,400
50 years

1967
01:23:29,149 --> 01:23:26,100
100 years or a thousand years isn't

1968
01:23:31,310 --> 01:23:29,159
going to be where we are now yeah the

1969
01:23:34,669 --> 01:23:31,320
history of science has has demonstrated

1970
01:23:37,610 --> 01:23:34,679
Never Say Never uh I have uh magazine

1971
01:23:39,649 --> 01:23:37,620
articles from the 1950s where leading

1972
01:23:42,169 --> 01:23:39,659
rocket scientists are saying it'll be

1973
01:23:44,450 --> 01:23:42,179
another 50 years or more before we ever

1974
01:23:46,430 --> 01:23:44,460
land on the moon well that was proven

1975
01:23:49,430 --> 01:23:46,440
wrong with within a matter of about a

1976
01:23:51,709 --> 01:23:49,440
decade or so uh so I mean history has

1977
01:23:53,390 --> 01:23:51,719
consistently shown you know when we say

1978
01:23:55,070 --> 01:23:53,400
we won't be able to do this we won't be

1979
01:23:57,770 --> 01:23:55,080
able to do that you know human

1980
01:24:00,649 --> 01:23:57,780
perseverance and human Ingenuity has

1981
01:24:01,970 --> 01:24:00,659
demonstrated that we can have you had

1982
01:24:04,010 --> 01:24:01,980
your own sighting

1983
01:24:06,590 --> 01:24:04,020
I've not seen anything that I would call

1984
01:24:08,870 --> 01:24:06,600
a genuine UFO I've seen here in New

1985
01:24:11,209 --> 01:24:08,880
Mexico literally in my backyard lights

1986
01:24:14,149 --> 01:24:11,219
at as you mentioned Jimmy high altitude

1987
01:24:16,669 --> 01:24:14,159
nothing close very high altitude that

1988
01:24:19,250 --> 01:24:16,679
move in non-linear formation now what

1989
01:24:21,590 --> 01:24:19,260
those were I don't know but as far as me

1990
01:24:23,209 --> 01:24:21,600
saying I saw a UFO I need to see

1991
01:24:25,130 --> 01:24:23,219
structure on this thing I need to see

1992
01:24:27,530 --> 01:24:25,140
detail if I'm going to say I saw a UFO

1993
01:24:29,450 --> 01:24:27,540
but uh obviously I live in New Mexico

1994
01:24:31,850 --> 01:24:29,460
where there's a lot of military testing

1995
01:24:34,790 --> 01:24:31,860
so where these little Points of Light

1996
01:24:36,530 --> 01:24:34,800
zipping around military I don't have a

1997
01:24:38,689 --> 01:24:36,540
clue but my wife and I both have seen

1998
01:24:42,110 --> 01:24:38,699
those did you see that with the naked

1999
01:24:44,270 --> 01:24:42,120
eye yeah naked eye by the time I went in

2000
01:24:46,010 --> 01:24:44,280
to grab binoculars the thing was gone so

2001
01:24:48,649 --> 01:24:46,020
I was never never able to train my

2002
01:24:51,169 --> 01:24:48,659
telescope or my binoculars on it did it

2003
01:24:52,850 --> 01:24:51,179
have color no it looked just like a

2004
01:24:55,189 --> 01:24:52,860
satellite is the best way I can describe

2005
01:24:56,149 --> 01:24:55,199
it only instead of moving like this it

2006
01:25:00,050 --> 01:24:56,159
was

2007
01:25:03,110 --> 01:25:00,060
moving in weird circular movements

2008
01:25:05,390 --> 01:25:03,120
almost like figure eights

2009
01:25:07,490 --> 01:25:05,400
I don't know what that was that's uh

2010
01:25:10,130 --> 01:25:07,500
that's that's a Class A sighting right

2011
01:25:11,990 --> 01:25:10,140
there yeah I just I but for me it's like

2012
01:25:13,790 --> 01:25:12,000
I really got to see some detail or some

2013
01:25:15,470 --> 01:25:13,800
structure or see something close up I I

2014
01:25:17,810 --> 01:25:15,480
don't know what that was if you want to

2015
01:25:18,890 --> 01:25:17,820
call it a UFO we can call it a UFO but I

2016
01:25:22,490 --> 01:25:18,900
would really like to have a close

2017
01:25:25,270 --> 01:25:22,500
encounter now that's exactly where I'm

2018
01:25:34,550 --> 01:25:29,470
we also uh along with the different

2019
01:25:36,050 --> 01:25:34,560
phases uh and eras of of types of UFOs

2020
01:25:40,010 --> 01:25:36,060
right

2021
01:25:42,229 --> 01:25:40,020
um we seem to it's not entirely true

2022
01:25:45,229 --> 01:25:42,239
because it would be a misstatement if I

2023
01:25:48,110 --> 01:25:45,239
said we haven't had any Landings lately

2024
01:25:51,229 --> 01:25:48,120
because we have we've had lots of uh

2025
01:25:54,310 --> 01:25:51,239
modern reports of that but nothing like

2026
01:25:57,110 --> 01:25:54,320
what went on in the past

2027
01:25:59,510 --> 01:25:57,120
yeah why why do you think that change

2028
01:26:01,370 --> 01:25:59,520
has happened I don't know and and I've

2029
01:26:02,870 --> 01:26:01,380
had conversations with my colleagues

2030
01:26:04,669 --> 01:26:02,880
about this as we look at some of these

2031
01:26:07,669 --> 01:26:04,679
historical cases you know something else

2032
01:26:10,850 --> 01:26:07,679
that was very common besides Landings uh

2033
01:26:14,390 --> 01:26:10,860
back in the 50s and the 60s were reports

2034
01:26:16,850 --> 01:26:14,400
of in close proximity proximity to UFO

2035
01:26:19,610 --> 01:26:16,860
people describe a rotten egg smell or a

2036
01:26:22,010 --> 01:26:19,620
smell of ozone and this was uh

2037
01:26:23,629 --> 01:26:22,020
ubiquitous in the Case Files the reports

2038
01:26:25,189 --> 01:26:23,639
if someone was close to it oh yeah it

2039
01:26:27,649 --> 01:26:25,199
smelled like rotten eggs it smelled like

2040
01:26:31,010 --> 01:26:27,659
sulfur it had this terrible odor that

2041
01:26:33,169 --> 01:26:31,020
burned my nostrils we hardly ever hear

2042
01:26:36,110 --> 01:26:33,179
of a report like that anymore if at all

2043
01:26:38,629 --> 01:26:36,120
in this day and age another thing that

2044
01:26:41,510 --> 01:26:38,639
we see very very rarely relative to the

2045
01:26:43,610 --> 01:26:41,520
the 1950s and 60s uh vehicle

2046
01:26:46,490 --> 01:26:43,620
interference you know Mark rodiger wrote

2047
01:26:49,430 --> 01:26:46,500
the the seminal paper on vehicle

2048
01:26:51,470 --> 01:26:49,440
interference cases and UFOs but there

2049
01:26:53,689 --> 01:26:51,480
aren't really many reported if at all

2050
01:26:56,270 --> 01:26:53,699
you're talking about engine stopping

2051
01:26:59,090 --> 01:26:56,280
engine stalling and headlights going out

2052
01:27:01,310 --> 01:26:59,100
uh you know the the level in Texas case

2053
01:27:02,930 --> 01:27:01,320
from November 57 Kevin Randall just

2054
01:27:05,090 --> 01:27:02,940
wrote a great book on it where he really

2055
01:27:07,490 --> 01:27:05,100
puts all the data together

2056
01:27:09,110 --> 01:27:07,500
um that that case fascinated me as a kid

2057
01:27:10,550 --> 01:27:09,120
when I first read about that when I was

2058
01:27:12,830 --> 01:27:10,560
a kid growing up reading about some of

2059
01:27:13,970 --> 01:27:12,840
these UFO stories I thought okay this is

2060
01:27:15,590 --> 01:27:13,980
really unique it's not just someone

2061
01:27:18,410 --> 01:27:15,600
seeing something that actually created

2062
01:27:21,050 --> 01:27:18,420
an effect on electrical systems uh

2063
01:27:23,090 --> 01:27:21,060
around the object and so but we don't

2064
01:27:25,610 --> 01:27:23,100
get many reports of that another one is

2065
01:27:27,169 --> 01:27:25,620
saucer nests we used to get these

2066
01:27:30,649 --> 01:27:27,179
objects that would supposedly land or

2067
01:27:33,770 --> 01:27:30,659
hover just above uh Cattails or Sweet

2068
01:27:36,770 --> 01:27:33,780
Flag Marsh Grass and there was a famous

2069
01:27:37,850 --> 01:27:36,780
One in Tully Queensland Australia where

2070
01:27:40,250 --> 01:27:37,860
we actually have some of the original

2071
01:27:42,050 --> 01:27:40,260
photos here in our collection where you

2072
01:27:43,790 --> 01:27:42,060
have these huge what they called saucer

2073
01:27:46,070 --> 01:27:43,800
nests where the objects would hover

2074
01:27:47,270 --> 01:27:46,080
above or just set down on and create

2075
01:27:50,689 --> 01:27:47,280
these little

2076
01:27:52,370 --> 01:27:50,699
nests that the saucers had sat down in

2077
01:27:55,129 --> 01:27:52,380
we hardly ever hear of anything like

2078
01:27:57,910 --> 01:27:55,139
that today now we talked about uh black

2079
01:28:01,310 --> 01:27:57,920
triangles and

2080
01:28:03,590 --> 01:28:01,320
historically uh I I know you're going to

2081
01:28:06,410 --> 01:28:03,600
get excited with this but

2082
01:28:10,729 --> 01:28:06,420
um Tic Tacs aren't new

2083
01:28:13,430 --> 01:28:10,739
no and the description I have gone back

2084
01:28:16,149 --> 01:28:13,440
and I know that you have too you can go

2085
01:28:19,370 --> 01:28:16,159
back and look at drawings and

2086
01:28:23,390 --> 01:28:19,380
descriptions uh going back almost 100

2087
01:28:26,450 --> 01:28:23,400
years yeah of of tic tacs this is this

2088
01:28:28,550 --> 01:28:26,460
is not a new phenomena no and and back

2089
01:28:31,010 --> 01:28:28,560
then Jimmy uh people would say like

2090
01:28:32,450 --> 01:28:31,020
going back to the 1940s or 50s people

2091
01:28:35,390 --> 01:28:32,460
would say well it looked like a propane

2092
01:28:37,370 --> 01:28:35,400
tank you know they would use terminology

2093
01:28:38,930 --> 01:28:37,380
of the time to describe what they were

2094
01:28:40,790 --> 01:28:38,940
seeing and they would see or they would

2095
01:28:43,970 --> 01:28:40,800
describe it as cylindrical but you know

2096
01:28:46,010 --> 01:28:43,980
somewhat snub-nose uh but I mean really

2097
01:28:47,390 --> 01:28:46,020
the Tic Tac uh it looks like a white

2098
01:28:50,270 --> 01:28:47,400
propane tank

2099
01:28:53,750 --> 01:28:50,280
how many flying eggs have we heard at

2100
01:28:55,910 --> 01:28:53,760
the Socorro New Mexico Socorro uh

2101
01:28:58,250 --> 01:28:55,920
Levelland Texas it was described as an

2102
01:29:00,770 --> 01:28:58,260
egg-shaped object a case that I

2103
01:29:02,330 --> 01:29:00,780
investigated personally uh when I lived

2104
01:29:06,050 --> 01:29:02,340
in the St Louis area it was called The

2105
01:29:08,270 --> 01:29:06,060
Ides of March case March 15 1995. uh

2106
01:29:09,890 --> 01:29:08,280
Peter Davenport had uh was still

2107
01:29:11,990 --> 01:29:09,900
relatively new to the National UFO

2108
01:29:13,790 --> 01:29:12,000
Reporting Center and up until several

2109
01:29:16,850 --> 01:29:13,800
years ago he still used to lecture about

2110
01:29:18,590 --> 01:29:16,860
this case and mention my investigation

2111
01:29:20,750 --> 01:29:18,600
um we had reports throughout Illinois

2112
01:29:23,990 --> 01:29:20,760
Missouri and several other states in the

2113
01:29:27,890 --> 01:29:24,000
Midwest of this egg-shaped object that

2114
01:29:31,010 --> 01:29:27,900
was green had a red bottom to it and the

2115
01:29:33,290 --> 01:29:31,020
Air Force at in St Louis at near Scott

2116
01:29:35,629 --> 01:29:33,300
Air Force Base close to St Louis said

2117
01:29:37,790 --> 01:29:35,639
well uh based on the media inquiries we

2118
01:29:40,129 --> 01:29:37,800
think maybe this was a meteor but we had

2119
01:29:42,350 --> 01:29:40,139
Witnesses describing things executing

2120
01:29:44,629 --> 01:29:42,360
like a U-shaped turn as they were

2121
01:29:46,910 --> 01:29:44,639
watching it in flight and this was

2122
01:29:49,189 --> 01:29:46,920
reported by commercial airline pilots it

2123
01:29:51,050 --> 01:29:49,199
was reported by numerous individuals I

2124
01:29:52,370 --> 01:29:51,060
went to Jefferson City Missouri and

2125
01:29:54,229 --> 01:29:52,380
interviewed Missouri Highway Patrol

2126
01:29:56,510 --> 01:29:54,239
officers that had reported seeing it

2127
01:29:57,770 --> 01:29:56,520
from various locations and they too were

2128
01:29:59,689 --> 01:29:57,780
describing these these course

2129
01:30:01,189 --> 01:29:59,699
Corrections that this thing was it was

2130
01:30:07,330 --> 01:30:01,199
no meteor I don't know what it was but

2131
01:30:12,290 --> 01:30:07,340
it was no meteor uh Kecksburg turned two

2132
01:30:14,149 --> 01:30:12,300
you know Acorn yeah the descriptions and

2133
01:30:17,110 --> 01:30:14,159
you know and then the debunking of that

2134
01:30:20,990 --> 01:30:17,120
and so forth and that it was a meteor

2135
01:30:23,689 --> 01:30:21,000
that that made a course correction yeah

2136
01:30:25,010 --> 01:30:23,699
it did absolutely and uh you know

2137
01:30:26,629 --> 01:30:25,020
there's a number of different

2138
01:30:28,430 --> 01:30:26,639
explanations that are floating out there

2139
01:30:31,189 --> 01:30:28,440
that maybe it was the satellite re-entry

2140
01:30:33,830 --> 01:30:31,199
vehicle that actually was able to use

2141
01:30:35,930 --> 01:30:33,840
Jets to make course corrections I I

2142
01:30:38,090 --> 01:30:35,940
haven't done any in-depth investigation

2143
01:30:39,669 --> 01:30:38,100
into that case myself I think Stan

2144
01:30:41,510 --> 01:30:39,679
Gordon's done probably the best

2145
01:30:42,950 --> 01:30:41,520
investigation on that and I had the

2146
01:30:45,350 --> 01:30:42,960
opportunity during my lecture this year

2147
01:30:48,649 --> 01:30:45,360
to meet with Stan for the first time uh

2148
01:30:50,270 --> 01:30:48,659
in about 20 25 years uh we we both

2149
01:30:52,790 --> 01:30:50,280
lecture together in Ohio

2150
01:30:55,430 --> 01:30:52,800
yeah very cool very cool and I want to

2151
01:30:59,810 --> 01:30:55,440
go back to Socorro though yeah in Zamora

2152
01:31:05,330 --> 01:30:59,820
because if we take that the only thing

2153
01:31:07,250 --> 01:31:05,340
that throws that off for me is uh he he

2154
01:31:10,970 --> 01:31:07,260
talked about a blue flame

2155
01:31:15,350 --> 01:31:10,980
yeah right that's that's the only thing

2156
01:31:17,750 --> 01:31:15,360
that uh it throws it off but the

2157
01:31:22,129 --> 01:31:17,760
description itself

2158
01:31:24,590 --> 01:31:22,139
sounds very tick-tac-ish it's yeah very

2159
01:31:26,810 --> 01:31:24,600
close to the Tic Tac and around that

2160
01:31:29,330 --> 01:31:26,820
same uh time frame there were other

2161
01:31:31,970 --> 01:31:29,340
reports in New Mexico of that type of

2162
01:31:34,189 --> 01:31:31,980
object uh up in Espanola New Mexico

2163
01:31:36,470 --> 01:31:34,199
there was a report and a number of

2164
01:31:38,330 --> 01:31:36,480
others throughout the state 64 was a big

2165
01:31:40,250 --> 01:31:38,340
year a lot of people don't know that but

2166
01:31:42,649 --> 01:31:40,260
when you go in and look at the actual

2167
01:31:44,750 --> 01:31:42,659
Case Files Jimmy there's case after case

2168
01:31:47,510 --> 01:31:44,760
after case not all describing what

2169
01:31:50,149 --> 01:31:47,520
officer Zamora described but there was a

2170
01:31:53,390 --> 01:31:50,159
lot of UFO activity being reported in 64

2171
01:31:55,310 --> 01:31:53,400
even prior to the the media coverage of

2172
01:31:57,950 --> 01:31:55,320
the Socorro incident in fact I know

2173
01:32:01,070 --> 01:31:57,960
Lonnie Zamora's daughter uh here in New

2174
01:32:02,689 --> 01:32:01,080
Mexico and uh just off camera I have uh

2175
01:32:05,510 --> 01:32:02,699
from Lieutenant Carmen murano's

2176
01:32:07,970 --> 01:32:05,520
collection uh an unredacted original

2177
01:32:10,790 --> 01:32:07,980
blue book report on it and I have

2178
01:32:12,709 --> 01:32:10,800
original 8x10 glossies which James Fox

2179
01:32:15,590 --> 01:32:12,719
used for his documentary the uh the

2180
01:32:19,669 --> 01:32:15,600
phenomenon yeah I remember that

2181
01:32:23,229 --> 01:32:19,679
um uh that that was that section of the

2182
01:32:27,830 --> 01:32:23,239
Phenom that was one of the best best

2183
01:32:29,470 --> 01:32:27,840
best reporting on uh the Socorro case

2184
01:32:32,149 --> 01:32:29,480
that that I think has ever been done

2185
01:32:33,950 --> 01:32:32,159
absolutely yeah it's a fascinating case

2186
01:32:35,330 --> 01:32:33,960
to this day and it's it's one that I

2187
01:32:39,649 --> 01:32:35,340
think really stands out from a lot of

2188
01:32:42,350 --> 01:32:39,659
the rest uh heinek was uh extremely uh I

2189
01:32:44,330 --> 01:32:42,360
think moved by that case uh not because

2190
01:32:45,950 --> 01:32:44,340
of necessarily the case itself but he

2191
01:32:48,290 --> 01:32:45,960
was really struck with Lonnie Zamora's

2192
01:32:50,870 --> 01:32:48,300
integrity and honesty and uh anybody

2193
01:32:52,010 --> 01:32:50,880
that knew Lonnie testified to that that

2194
01:32:54,530 --> 01:32:52,020
this is not somebody that's going to

2195
01:32:56,810 --> 01:32:54,540
make a story up like this and in fact uh

2196
01:32:58,729 --> 01:32:56,820
as you know there were motorists uh that

2197
01:33:00,169 --> 01:32:58,739
they were never able to track down that

2198
01:33:01,970 --> 01:33:00,179
actually stopped at the the gas station

2199
01:33:04,490 --> 01:33:01,980
there in Socorro that said it flew right

2200
01:33:06,169 --> 01:33:04,500
over the the the road that they were on

2201
01:33:08,030 --> 01:33:06,179
right in front of their car so there

2202
01:33:10,430 --> 01:33:08,040
were other witnesses to to the actual

2203
01:33:12,530 --> 01:33:10,440
object ironically enough I was flipping

2204
01:33:13,669 --> 01:33:12,540
channels I usually don't watch UFO shows

2205
01:33:17,090 --> 01:33:13,679
because I get frustrated with the

2206
01:33:18,770 --> 01:33:17,100
inaccuracy of how they portray these

2207
01:33:21,729 --> 01:33:18,780
cases I'm sure you can appreciate that

2208
01:33:24,290 --> 01:33:21,739
and they explain explain the

2209
01:33:26,870 --> 01:33:24,300
conclusively explained the Socorro New

2210
01:33:29,330 --> 01:33:26,880
Mexico incident as a lunar lander tester

2211
01:33:32,209 --> 01:33:29,340
yeah that that flew away from White

2212
01:33:34,010 --> 01:33:32,219
Sands it's so infuriating because other

2213
01:33:37,370 --> 01:33:34,020
than the landing gear it did not match

2214
01:33:40,250 --> 01:33:37,380
what Zamora described more specifically

2215
01:33:43,070 --> 01:33:40,260
if you know where the northern tip of

2216
01:33:45,050 --> 01:33:43,080
White Sands is relative to Socorro the

2217
01:33:47,510 --> 01:33:45,060
lunar lander test module that they were

2218
01:33:49,970 --> 01:33:47,520
testing at that time only had a flight

2219
01:33:52,910 --> 01:33:49,980
duration of 15 minutes

2220
01:33:54,770 --> 01:33:52,920
and it's a good clip to go from the

2221
01:33:58,729 --> 01:33:54,780
furthest Northern Tier of White Sands

2222
01:34:01,669 --> 01:33:58,739
over to Socorro land have two pilots get

2223
01:34:03,530 --> 01:34:01,679
out as Zamora described get back in the

2224
01:34:06,169 --> 01:34:03,540
vehicle and then fly back to White Sands

2225
01:34:08,149 --> 01:34:06,179
I would argue that the uh the fuel

2226
01:34:10,430 --> 01:34:08,159
capacity would not have allowed for a

2227
01:34:14,990 --> 01:34:10,440
flight yeah not at all not at all not at

2228
01:34:16,490 --> 01:34:15,000
all and uh this is the thing

2229
01:34:17,810 --> 01:34:16,500
um and I've read all those same thing

2230
01:34:20,810 --> 01:34:17,820
you know it was a bunch of college

2231
01:34:24,470 --> 01:34:20,820
students partying they were drinking

2232
01:34:28,550 --> 01:34:24,480
um every attempt at debunking that right

2233
01:34:32,030 --> 01:34:28,560
has has been made yeah heinek himself

2234
01:34:34,370 --> 01:34:32,040
I said and by the way I uh a couple of

2235
01:34:39,290 --> 01:34:34,380
months ago I spent a couple of days with

2236
01:34:41,110 --> 01:34:39,300
with valet and and one I spent uh well a

2237
01:34:44,689 --> 01:34:41,120
couple of days with them uh privately

2238
01:34:48,250 --> 01:34:44,699
and uh we sat down and talked for a good

2239
01:34:53,990 --> 01:34:48,260
six hours uh had dinner and did buyers

2240
01:34:55,370 --> 01:34:54,000
and we talked about Socorro extensively

2241
01:34:57,950 --> 01:34:55,380
um and he you know he had his direct

2242
01:35:00,649 --> 01:34:57,960
involvement with it so anyway

2243
01:35:04,370 --> 01:35:00,659
putting that aside

2244
01:35:06,590 --> 01:35:04,380
if you go and read heineck's own

2245
01:35:10,550 --> 01:35:06,600
comments and Clinton now and everybody

2246
01:35:14,689 --> 01:35:10,560
else uh that was involved with blue book

2247
01:35:18,770 --> 01:35:14,699
um they did absolutely everything they

2248
01:35:21,010 --> 01:35:18,780
could to try and prove it was anything

2249
01:35:26,510 --> 01:35:21,020
but an alien

2250
01:35:29,390 --> 01:35:26,520
absolutely every they this case was an

2251
01:35:31,490 --> 01:35:29,400
important case and they needed to make

2252
01:35:33,110 --> 01:35:31,500
sure that it wasn't NASA that it wasn't

2253
01:35:35,209 --> 01:35:33,120
this that it wasn't that it wasn't the

2254
01:35:37,850 --> 01:35:35,219
college students it was an imagination

2255
01:35:39,290 --> 01:35:37,860
it wasn't that they did everything that

2256
01:35:41,930 --> 01:35:39,300
they could and they could not come up

2257
01:35:44,750 --> 01:35:41,940
with an explanation and they threw

2258
01:35:47,330 --> 01:35:44,760
resources out of David and to your point

2259
01:35:48,890 --> 01:35:47,340
Jimmy if there was a conventional

2260
01:35:50,689 --> 01:35:48,900
explanation they would have been the

2261
01:35:55,689 --> 01:35:50,699
first to hang their hat on that and say

2262
01:36:03,470 --> 01:35:59,350
now let's um uh I'm gonna talk about

2263
01:36:05,570 --> 01:36:03,480
George Van Tassel okay

2264
01:36:07,850 --> 01:36:05,580
um fascinating guy

2265
01:36:11,149 --> 01:36:07,860
love his stuff I've I've gone back and

2266
01:36:14,450 --> 01:36:11,159
listened to all of his Rotary Club

2267
01:36:16,250 --> 01:36:14,460
presentations you know you know that

2268
01:36:18,290 --> 01:36:16,260
stuff is online now and you know oh yeah

2269
01:36:21,530 --> 01:36:18,300
I've got a lot of autographed material

2270
01:36:24,890 --> 01:36:21,540
here of George's just unreal you know

2271
01:36:27,129 --> 01:36:24,900
and and giant rocks is incredible but

2272
01:36:31,550 --> 01:36:27,139
um that was another

2273
01:36:37,390 --> 01:36:31,560
phase another era yeah if you go from

2274
01:36:41,689 --> 01:36:37,400
say 55 to 65 right that 10-year period

2275
01:36:44,090 --> 01:36:41,699
where uh um you could stop a lot of

2276
01:36:46,129 --> 01:36:44,100
people on the street and get a story

2277
01:36:47,570 --> 01:36:46,139
from them about taking a ride in a

2278
01:36:49,910 --> 01:36:47,580
flying saucer and hanging out with

2279
01:36:53,270 --> 01:36:49,920
people from penis the contact e space

2280
01:36:55,970 --> 01:36:53,280
brother it was it what this was like the

2281
01:36:58,550 --> 01:36:55,980
we talk about conferences the original

2282
01:37:02,090 --> 01:36:58,560
contact in the desert that happened in

2283
01:37:03,530 --> 01:37:02,100
1956 and there was a giant rock yeah 10

2284
01:37:06,050 --> 01:37:03,540
000 people out there and they did that

2285
01:37:07,930 --> 01:37:06,060
all the way into the 1970s yeah it was

2286
01:37:10,490 --> 01:37:07,940
that was a big conference

2287
01:37:13,270 --> 01:37:10,500
everybody you look at the newsreels

2288
01:37:17,290 --> 01:37:13,280
right going up and everybody had a story

2289
01:37:19,490 --> 01:37:17,300
about hanging out with

2290
01:37:21,530 --> 01:37:19,500
and you know what's so funny about that

2291
01:37:23,870 --> 01:37:21,540
period Jimmy and we don't often talk

2292
01:37:25,550 --> 01:37:23,880
about this so I'm glad you brought it up

2293
01:37:27,530 --> 01:37:25,560
um I think it really demonstrates kind

2294
01:37:29,450 --> 01:37:27,540
of the male chauvinism of the time time

2295
01:37:31,850 --> 01:37:29,460
because traditionally we always think of

2296
01:37:35,270 --> 01:37:31,860
like you said George Van Tassel Georgia

2297
01:37:37,729 --> 01:37:35,280
damski Howard Menger uh you know any

2298
01:37:40,729 --> 01:37:37,739
number of the Truman bathroom was

2299
01:37:42,290 --> 01:37:40,739
another one orpheo angelucci all of

2300
01:37:44,510 --> 01:37:42,300
these were very popular contact these

2301
01:37:46,250 --> 01:37:44,520
what many people don't know though and

2302
01:37:48,470 --> 01:37:46,260
when I inherited Lou ferris's collection

2303
01:37:50,510 --> 01:37:48,480
he had a vast library of contact

2304
01:37:53,450 --> 01:37:50,520
e-material again a lot of it autographed

2305
01:37:56,810 --> 01:37:53,460
there were a lot I would argue equally

2306
01:37:58,189 --> 01:37:56,820
as many female contactees and

2307
01:38:00,110 --> 01:37:58,199
unfortunately you just don't hear about

2308
01:38:02,149 --> 01:38:00,120
them as much but we have a lot of their

2309
01:38:04,070 --> 01:38:02,159
material Dina Howard was one of those

2310
01:38:07,550 --> 01:38:04,080
and she wrote a number of books and

2311
01:38:09,830 --> 01:38:07,560
pamphlets on her experiences with uh the

2312
01:38:12,110 --> 01:38:09,840
space brothers and so we often hear

2313
01:38:13,970 --> 01:38:12,120
these typical names men's names but

2314
01:38:15,729 --> 01:38:13,980
there were a lot of female contactees

2315
01:38:18,410 --> 01:38:15,739
from that era

2316
01:38:22,310 --> 01:38:18,420
the um

2317
01:38:26,570 --> 01:38:22,320
the era ended and it was lovely by the

2318
01:38:29,689 --> 01:38:26,580
way why why do you think it it it it it

2319
01:38:31,550 --> 01:38:29,699
it it it it came to an end well I think

2320
01:38:34,010 --> 01:38:31,560
some of it and not all of it I'm not

2321
01:38:35,930 --> 01:38:34,020
going to summarily dismiss it all uh I

2322
01:38:38,570 --> 01:38:35,940
think sociologists to some degree

2323
01:38:42,610 --> 01:38:38,580
acknowledge that this was uh to some

2324
01:38:45,290 --> 01:38:42,620
degree born out of the uh anti-war

2325
01:38:49,189 --> 01:38:45,300
anti-atomic weapons movement of the

2326
01:38:51,649 --> 01:38:49,199
1950s and I think by the 1950s 60s and

2327
01:38:53,090 --> 01:38:51,659
as you mentioned going into the 70s as

2328
01:38:55,370 --> 01:38:53,100
you know some of those contactees

2329
01:38:56,930 --> 01:38:55,380
weren't young when they were making you

2330
01:38:58,610 --> 01:38:56,940
know these claims and going to Giant

2331
01:39:02,209 --> 01:38:58,620
Rock they were already in their 50s and

2332
01:39:04,629 --> 01:39:02,219
60s so I think to be blunt I think a lot

2333
01:39:08,390 --> 01:39:04,639
of the contactee people just died off

2334
01:39:09,350 --> 01:39:08,400
and I think at that point late 70s

2335
01:39:11,330 --> 01:39:09,360
you're starting to get into the

2336
01:39:13,490 --> 01:39:11,340
abduction phenomena now into the early

2337
01:39:16,010 --> 01:39:13,500
80s so I think that really kind of

2338
01:39:18,050 --> 01:39:16,020
captured the popular imagination at the

2339
01:39:20,030 --> 01:39:18,060
time but as you and I know and I think

2340
01:39:22,850 --> 01:39:20,040
you and I I know people personally Jimmy

2341
01:39:24,729 --> 01:39:22,860
people are still having experiences that

2342
01:39:28,129 --> 01:39:24,739
mirror what some of the contact

2343
01:39:32,870 --> 01:39:28,139
contactee people reported in the 1950s I

2344
01:39:36,110 --> 01:39:32,880
interview them I've friends uh it's uh

2345
01:39:38,510 --> 01:39:36,120
it's a fascinating subject and

2346
01:39:42,169 --> 01:39:38,520
um I I try to cover it as completely as

2347
01:39:43,850 --> 01:39:42,179
I can I don't have all the answers but I

2348
01:39:45,770 --> 01:39:43,860
will ask the questions I'm trying to

2349
01:39:47,689 --> 01:39:45,780
figure this out I haven't been abducted

2350
01:39:49,669 --> 01:39:47,699
right not that I know of I don't know

2351
01:39:53,270 --> 01:39:49,679
right David maybe you've got some

2352
01:39:54,890 --> 01:39:53,280
missing time you can't account for but I

2353
01:39:56,629 --> 01:39:54,900
have I have a great sleep paralysis

2354
01:39:58,430 --> 01:39:56,639
story though

2355
01:40:00,709 --> 01:39:58,440
tell me about it I've got one too

2356
01:40:03,850 --> 01:40:00,719
everybody's heard mine I've never I've

2357
01:40:07,669 --> 01:40:03,860
never told this publicly and let's go

2358
01:40:09,590 --> 01:40:07,679
I was literally at the uh Eureka Springs

2359
01:40:12,410 --> 01:40:09,600
UFO conference in Arkansas and again

2360
01:40:14,209 --> 01:40:12,420
I've gone since probably 91 92 off and

2361
01:40:17,209 --> 01:40:14,219
on almost every year I've lectured there

2362
01:40:19,370 --> 01:40:17,219
many times on this particular year and

2363
01:40:22,610 --> 01:40:19,380
this is going back probably 15 years or

2364
01:40:24,169 --> 01:40:22,620
more my best friend Dave girl who I grew

2365
01:40:25,729 --> 01:40:24,179
up with were like brothers we'd known

2366
01:40:27,530 --> 01:40:25,739
each other since four years old and his

2367
01:40:31,010 --> 01:40:27,540
mom and my mom were were friends growing

2368
01:40:32,930 --> 01:40:31,020
up in the 40s and 50s we both shared a

2369
01:40:34,370 --> 01:40:32,940
room and for those that have attended

2370
01:40:37,910 --> 01:40:34,380
that conference they're the old style

2371
01:40:41,209 --> 01:40:37,920
hotels where you have the bed you have

2372
01:40:43,250 --> 01:40:41,219
the TV and off to the side you have a

2373
01:40:45,770 --> 01:40:43,260
bathroom countertop and then the only

2374
01:40:48,830 --> 01:40:45,780
thing that's behind a door is the toilet

2375
01:40:50,750 --> 01:40:48,840
and the bathtub so literally right off

2376
01:40:53,689 --> 01:40:50,760
of the bedroom area there you have a

2377
01:40:55,850 --> 01:40:53,699
vanity with a mirror and everything and

2378
01:40:57,729 --> 01:40:55,860
on this one occasion where I actually

2379
01:41:02,209 --> 01:40:57,739
had sleep per hour analysis

2380
01:41:03,410 --> 01:41:02,219
I was lying in bed and I see this bright

2381
01:41:05,090 --> 01:41:03,420
white light

2382
01:41:07,070 --> 01:41:05,100
and I can't move

2383
01:41:10,129 --> 01:41:07,080
and I noticed that there's this dark

2384
01:41:13,129 --> 01:41:10,139
figure moving like this and it's a

2385
01:41:15,709 --> 01:41:13,139
humanoid figure head shoulders arms legs

2386
01:41:17,510 --> 01:41:15,719
and I can't figure out what it is and

2387
01:41:18,470 --> 01:41:17,520
I'm suddenly feeling panic but I can't

2388
01:41:21,050 --> 01:41:18,480
move

2389
01:41:22,970 --> 01:41:21,060
in my mind I think I'm screaming out

2390
01:41:25,490 --> 01:41:22,980
loud Jimmy because I'm terrified I don't

2391
01:41:28,189 --> 01:41:25,500
know what's going on but I'm paralyzed

2392
01:41:31,189 --> 01:41:28,199
and where I think I'm screaming at the

2393
01:41:33,229 --> 01:41:31,199
top of my lungs my friend Dave who is

2394
01:41:35,570 --> 01:41:33,239
standing at the vanity which was the

2395
01:41:38,330 --> 01:41:35,580
humanoid that I was seeing only I was

2396
01:41:41,090 --> 01:41:38,340
half asleep half awake I wasn't uh

2397
01:41:43,480 --> 01:41:41,100
perceiving that he suddenly hears out of

2398
01:41:45,310 --> 01:41:43,490
the darkness of the room

2399
01:41:47,510 --> 01:41:45,320
[Music]

2400
01:41:49,310 --> 01:41:47,520
he thought he said it sounded like a

2401
01:41:53,030 --> 01:41:49,320
guinea pig or a gerbil or something

2402
01:41:54,830 --> 01:41:53,040
making noise and it was actually me in

2403
01:41:56,450 --> 01:41:54,840
my mind I'm screaming out loud but

2404
01:41:59,689 --> 01:41:56,460
because I was paralyzed it was only

2405
01:42:01,129 --> 01:41:59,699
coming out as squeaks and as he

2406
01:42:03,530 --> 01:42:01,139
approaches me to see what's going on

2407
01:42:06,229 --> 01:42:03,540
he's saying Dave Dave are you okay

2408
01:42:08,810 --> 01:42:06,239
in my perception because again I'm in

2409
01:42:11,209 --> 01:42:08,820
that halfway calf sleep State I see this

2410
01:42:13,490 --> 01:42:11,219
dark figure just moving towards me and

2411
01:42:15,350 --> 01:42:13,500
so I start screaming more so the squeaks

2412
01:42:18,229 --> 01:42:15,360
start getting higher and higher as far

2413
01:42:20,750 --> 01:42:18,239
as the frequency and finally he he grabs

2414
01:42:22,250 --> 01:42:20,760
me and shakes me and said the first

2415
01:42:24,770 --> 01:42:22,260
thing I remember consciously is hearing

2416
01:42:26,930 --> 01:42:24,780
Dave are you all right and I looked up

2417
01:42:30,830 --> 01:42:26,940
at him and I'm still paralyzed and but I

2418
01:42:32,330 --> 01:42:30,840
was able to talk I said oh it's you and

2419
01:42:33,709 --> 01:42:32,340
we both just start laughing at that

2420
01:42:36,830 --> 01:42:33,719
point because we realized what had

2421
01:42:39,830 --> 01:42:36,840
happened but I can see how someone was

2422
01:42:42,109 --> 01:42:39,840
sleep paralysis could have a visual

2423
01:42:44,390 --> 01:42:42,119
perception like that and think it was

2424
01:42:45,950 --> 01:42:44,400
something more than just that and my

2425
01:42:48,169 --> 01:42:45,960
background is in sleep medicine as well

2426
01:42:51,350 --> 01:42:48,179
and I used to manage one of the largest

2427
01:42:54,229 --> 01:42:51,360
clinical sleep labs in St Louis uh and

2428
01:42:56,750 --> 01:42:54,239
we would do uh both uh diagnostic as

2429
01:42:58,250 --> 01:42:56,760
well as clinical trials uh on sleep and

2430
01:43:00,470 --> 01:42:58,260
I've had people in a clinical

2431
01:43:02,810 --> 01:43:00,480
environment describe a figure or figures

2432
01:43:04,490 --> 01:43:02,820
around the bed balls of light flying

2433
01:43:06,590 --> 01:43:04,500
around the room and there are paralyzed

2434
01:43:08,030 --> 01:43:06,600
and they sense this presence it was

2435
01:43:10,070 --> 01:43:08,040
completely within a controlled lab

2436
01:43:11,510 --> 01:43:10,080
environment and I have them hooked up to

2437
01:43:13,910 --> 01:43:11,520
all the instrumentation we're video

2438
01:43:16,070 --> 01:43:13,920
recording everything myself the doctors

2439
01:43:17,689 --> 01:43:16,080
the other technicians are in there there

2440
01:43:19,370 --> 01:43:17,699
was no missing time they weren't

2441
01:43:21,350 --> 01:43:19,380
Switched Off they weren't taken because

2442
01:43:24,310 --> 01:43:21,360
we were literally monitoring every

2443
01:43:26,870 --> 01:43:24,320
heartbeat every every spike in their EEG

2444
01:43:28,550 --> 01:43:26,880
so I'm not saying that that explains all

2445
01:43:30,649 --> 01:43:28,560
abductions but I'm simply saying I could

2446
01:43:32,570 --> 01:43:30,659
see how some people could think they had

2447
01:43:34,490 --> 01:43:32,580
an abduction experience if they weren't

2448
01:43:37,070 --> 01:43:34,500
familiar with the symptoms of sleep

2449
01:43:40,790 --> 01:43:37,080
paralysis and narcolepsy

2450
01:43:44,209 --> 01:43:40,800
I could take all of this a way step

2451
01:43:46,310 --> 01:43:44,219
further you would if if okay so check

2452
01:43:47,649 --> 01:43:46,320
this out oh I wanted to make this

2453
01:43:50,350 --> 01:43:47,659
comment though

2454
01:43:54,410 --> 01:43:50,360
when you went through your experience

2455
01:43:56,629 --> 01:43:54,420
the rush of adrenaline oh my God pretty

2456
01:43:59,689 --> 01:43:56,639
incredible isn't it it was incredible I

2457
01:44:01,250 --> 01:43:59,699
mean I was scared to death I've never

2458
01:44:02,629 --> 01:44:01,260
talked about this publicly by the way

2459
01:44:04,729 --> 01:44:02,639
this is the first time I've ever talked

2460
01:44:07,070 --> 01:44:04,739
about this uh my friend Dave and I still

2461
01:44:10,850 --> 01:44:07,080
laugh about it to this day I was in a

2462
01:44:13,370 --> 01:44:10,860
state of panic me too I the The Rush

2463
01:44:16,490 --> 01:44:13,380
that that that I went through I did not

2464
01:44:18,229 --> 01:44:16,500
enjoy that at all uh it wasn't a cool

2465
01:44:21,910 --> 01:44:18,239
experience okay but here's the thing

2466
01:44:23,689 --> 01:44:21,920
okay so now let's let's if

2467
01:44:28,010 --> 01:44:23,699
if

2468
01:44:32,390 --> 01:44:28,020
up you're monitored you're doing you're

2469
01:44:37,870 --> 01:44:32,400
doing your thing if somebody uh slips

2470
01:44:41,629 --> 01:44:37,880
out of a slice of Dimension and time

2471
01:44:44,770 --> 01:44:41,639
consciously right you're no their body

2472
01:44:47,750 --> 01:44:44,780
is still you know being measured

2473
01:44:51,410 --> 01:44:47,760
nothing's changing there yeah

2474
01:44:53,030 --> 01:44:51,420
um and they could go out if if for a

2475
01:44:56,990 --> 01:44:53,040
year yeah

2476
01:44:59,450 --> 01:44:57,000
right and and come back and we only we

2477
01:45:01,250 --> 01:44:59,460
don't even notice that yeah I mean that

2478
01:45:02,930 --> 01:45:01,260
that's impossible to measure at least at

2479
01:45:04,669 --> 01:45:02,940
this stage yeah that's what I'm saying

2480
01:45:06,350 --> 01:45:04,679
so there's a lot of these people too

2481
01:45:09,229 --> 01:45:06,360
though once they were put on medications

2482
01:45:13,070 --> 01:45:09,239
to help treat their narcolepsy all of

2483
01:45:15,590 --> 01:45:13,080
the symptoms disappeared so yeah quality

2484
01:45:17,570 --> 01:45:15,600
all I'm saying is I I have always said

2485
01:45:19,609 --> 01:45:17,580
with abduction research it should be no

2486
01:45:21,229 --> 01:45:19,619
different than a UFO sighting when we

2487
01:45:22,850 --> 01:45:21,239
investigate a UFO sighting the last

2488
01:45:25,370 --> 01:45:22,860
thing on the list is extraterrestrial

2489
01:45:26,870 --> 01:45:25,380
spacecraft was it military was it

2490
01:45:28,609 --> 01:45:26,880
commercial was it a satellite was it

2491
01:45:30,890 --> 01:45:28,619
military flare you know you go down your

2492
01:45:33,770 --> 01:45:30,900
list and I think we need to rule out

2493
01:45:35,990 --> 01:45:33,780
with these people uh do you have a

2494
01:45:38,270 --> 01:45:36,000
history of sleep disorders have you had

2495
01:45:40,550 --> 01:45:38,280
a sleep study do you have a history of

2496
01:45:43,250 --> 01:45:40,560
schizophrenia or mental disease in the

2497
01:45:44,689 --> 01:45:43,260
family we need to ensure that we're just

2498
01:45:46,729 --> 01:45:44,699
to be honest and respectful of the

2499
01:45:49,850 --> 01:45:46,739
individual let's eliminate all the

2500
01:45:51,530 --> 01:45:49,860
prosaic explanations sure then if we're

2501
01:45:52,910 --> 01:45:51,540
still left with something then we have a

2502
01:45:55,010 --> 01:45:52,920
genuine mystery and I do believe we have

2503
01:45:55,970 --> 01:45:55,020
a a mystery I by no means I don't want

2504
01:45:57,410 --> 01:45:55,980
your audience to think I'm just

2505
01:45:59,750 --> 01:45:57,420
summarily discounting all abduction

2506
01:46:02,149 --> 01:45:59,760
accounts I'm not no you can't when

2507
01:46:06,770 --> 01:46:02,159
you're sitting in front of 15

2508
01:46:08,990 --> 01:46:06,780
000 cases exactly but but but that that

2509
01:46:13,550 --> 01:46:09,000
that begs the the million dollar

2510
01:46:17,649 --> 01:46:13,560
question which I I am constantly

2511
01:46:22,370 --> 01:46:17,659
throwing it out there we cannot you can

2512
01:46:29,770 --> 01:46:22,380
we cannot have hundreds of millions of

2513
01:46:34,010 --> 01:46:32,390
yeah I love John Mack I had the

2514
01:46:35,629 --> 01:46:34,020
opportunity to meet him at Eureka

2515
01:46:38,570 --> 01:46:35,639
Springs actually one year he spoke in

2516
01:46:40,370 --> 01:46:38,580
the early 90s and uh you know John I

2517
01:46:42,590 --> 01:46:40,380
think I I can't remember his exact words

2518
01:46:44,930 --> 01:46:42,600
but he said you know either we have

2519
01:46:47,149 --> 01:46:44,940
these people describing real experiences

2520
01:46:49,129 --> 01:46:47,159
or it's another psychiatric disorder

2521
01:46:51,609 --> 01:46:49,139
that we haven't understood or cataloged

2522
01:46:53,990 --> 01:46:51,619
yet in either case we need to look at it

2523
01:46:54,590 --> 01:46:54,000
when I look at

2524
01:46:57,890 --> 01:46:54,600
um

2525
01:46:59,990 --> 01:46:57,900
Van Tassel I've been staying this is the

2526
01:47:03,950 --> 01:47:00,000
subject right so when you look at Van

2527
01:47:05,229 --> 01:47:03,960
Tassel and and his original

2528
01:47:07,850 --> 01:47:05,239
the the

2529
01:47:09,890 --> 01:47:07,860
you know finishing up their apple pies

2530
01:47:12,410 --> 01:47:09,900
for the night you know and him and his

2531
01:47:14,090 --> 01:47:12,420
wife and he goes to bed he wakes up

2532
01:47:16,609 --> 01:47:14,100
there's something calling him outside he

2533
01:47:18,830 --> 01:47:16,619
goes outside rounds the corner boom

2534
01:47:21,890 --> 01:47:18,840
there's a flying saucer sitting on uh

2535
01:47:23,209 --> 01:47:21,900
next to the runway of his his airport

2536
01:47:25,189 --> 01:47:23,219
right

2537
01:47:27,830 --> 01:47:25,199
um it meets with the being they go they

2538
01:47:30,410 --> 01:47:27,840
go up they the into the craft the dude

2539
01:47:32,510 --> 01:47:30,420
says hey man you want you one you want

2540
01:47:34,490 --> 01:47:32,520
to go for a ride yeah I do actually okay

2541
01:47:36,709 --> 01:47:34,500
so let's take this thing up I'm

2542
01:47:39,890 --> 01:47:36,719
paraphrasing here but this is Van

2543
01:47:43,790 --> 01:47:39,900
tassel's uh description of events and

2544
01:47:47,390 --> 01:47:43,800
when George describes uh the control

2545
01:47:49,850 --> 01:47:47,400
panel he describes it in a way that

2546
01:47:51,470 --> 01:47:49,860
there was nothing like that back then it

2547
01:47:54,290 --> 01:47:51,480
wasn't a science fiction films it wasn't

2548
01:47:56,890 --> 01:47:54,300
in right you know it it wasn't part of

2549
01:48:00,290 --> 01:47:56,900
aircraft no he described something

2550
01:48:03,229 --> 01:48:00,300
completely new and fresh and if you go

2551
01:48:07,310 --> 01:48:03,239
back and listen to that I truly believe

2552
01:48:10,609 --> 01:48:07,320
that he he experienced and saw what he

2553
01:48:12,770 --> 01:48:10,619
saw because he was he wasn't influenced

2554
01:48:17,870 --> 01:48:12,780
by something else he was describing

2555
01:48:21,350 --> 01:48:17,880
something uh completely foreign to to

2556
01:48:23,330 --> 01:48:21,360
the world at that time well yeah and

2557
01:48:25,490 --> 01:48:23,340
really I I'm glad you're bringing this

2558
01:48:28,729 --> 01:48:25,500
up because I I often say this to friends

2559
01:48:30,470 --> 01:48:28,739
and colleagues uh someone may report an

2560
01:48:33,169 --> 01:48:30,480
experience whether it's abduction or

2561
01:48:35,810 --> 01:48:33,179
contact e related or you know out of

2562
01:48:37,010 --> 01:48:35,820
body and some colleagues may say well

2563
01:48:39,649 --> 01:48:37,020
you know I don't know if we can believe

2564
01:48:41,629 --> 01:48:39,659
that it's like look you weren't there I

2565
01:48:43,850 --> 01:48:41,639
wasn't there how do you know that didn't

2566
01:48:45,830 --> 01:48:43,860
happen to the individual I never tell

2567
01:48:48,890 --> 01:48:45,840
someone what they described didn't

2568
01:48:50,330 --> 01:48:48,900
happen because I wasn't there and I

2569
01:48:53,990 --> 01:48:50,340
think it's extremely arrogant for other

2570
01:48:56,629 --> 01:48:54,000
people to weigh in on an event that they

2571
01:48:58,850 --> 01:48:56,639
weren't personally witnessed to

2572
01:49:01,250 --> 01:48:58,860
um so you know I I don't try to

2573
01:49:03,109 --> 01:49:01,260
disparage those people uh you know I try

2574
01:49:05,450 --> 01:49:03,119
to find in the cases that I investigate

2575
01:49:06,709 --> 01:49:05,460
corroborative testimony because I'm

2576
01:49:09,950 --> 01:49:06,719
trying to present this to the general

2577
01:49:12,410 --> 01:49:09,960
public and I want to try to provide uh

2578
01:49:14,450 --> 01:49:12,420
narratives where look we did find other

2579
01:49:17,090 --> 01:49:14,460
Witnesses we did have radar confirmation

2580
01:49:19,310 --> 01:49:17,100
but with these other cases even though I

2581
01:49:21,530 --> 01:49:19,320
don't necessarily lecture on them how do

2582
01:49:23,629 --> 01:49:21,540
I know that this didn't happen to this

2583
01:49:27,189 --> 01:49:23,639
individual when they claim it did if I

2584
01:49:30,590 --> 01:49:27,199
wasn't there yeah and when you go

2585
01:49:33,290 --> 01:49:30,600
there are to me there's like three

2586
01:49:37,030 --> 01:49:33,300
there's many I I there's it's not just

2587
01:49:40,129 --> 01:49:37,040
three but three four

2588
01:49:43,090 --> 01:49:40,139
historical cases that are really well

2589
01:49:47,629 --> 01:49:43,100
documented and and Betty and Barney Hill

2590
01:49:50,810 --> 01:49:47,639
uh Betty Andreessen uh rendelshim and

2591
01:49:55,070 --> 01:49:50,820
Travis Walton yeah where we can go and

2592
01:49:57,770 --> 01:49:55,080
listen to all of this this isn't 400

2593
01:50:02,270 --> 01:49:57,780
years ago right this isn't the this is

2594
01:50:04,370 --> 01:50:02,280
these are modern uh events where we've

2595
01:50:07,209 --> 01:50:04,380
got tape recordings interview views

2596
01:50:12,649 --> 01:50:07,219
photographs drawings things statements

2597
01:50:15,470 --> 01:50:12,659
and there that that part of it uh for me

2598
01:50:18,470 --> 01:50:15,480
I think is completely fascinating and we

2599
01:50:19,750 --> 01:50:18,480
have to pay attention to this

2600
01:50:23,030 --> 01:50:19,760
um it's just

2601
01:50:25,850 --> 01:50:23,040
Travis Walton is still here John Burwell

2602
01:50:28,189 --> 01:50:25,860
right right

2603
01:50:29,870 --> 01:50:28,199
I mean these are great cases one I would

2604
01:50:32,570 --> 01:50:29,880
add to that just talking about the

2605
01:50:34,550 --> 01:50:32,580
history is uh even one before Betty and

2606
01:50:38,169 --> 01:50:34,560
Barney Hill the the Brazilian case the

2607
01:50:40,550 --> 01:50:38,179
Antonio Antonio villaboa's case

2608
01:50:45,129 --> 01:50:40,560
it's an incredible case well Virginia

2609
01:50:47,109 --> 01:50:45,139
you know which is uh Virginia

2610
01:50:50,209 --> 01:50:47,119
yes

2611
01:50:53,590 --> 01:50:50,219
I keep going back to uh John Carter on

2612
01:50:57,950 --> 01:50:53,600
Mars right John Carter and his name was

2613
01:50:59,510 --> 01:50:57,960
vargine yeah but the Antonio villaboa's

2614
01:51:01,970 --> 01:50:59,520
case what's interesting about that is

2615
01:51:04,189 --> 01:51:01,980
there's certain themes that would later

2616
01:51:06,350 --> 01:51:04,199
be uh you know very common

2617
01:51:07,790 --> 01:51:06,360
characteristics with the later abduction

2618
01:51:10,189 --> 01:51:07,800
accounts that we would start hearing

2619
01:51:13,490 --> 01:51:10,199
about in the late 70s into the 80s but

2620
01:51:16,010 --> 01:51:13,500
this was in 1957 that this happened and

2621
01:51:17,510 --> 01:51:16,020
uh you know even within UFO circles a

2622
01:51:20,330 --> 01:51:17,520
lot of people had a hard time accepting

2623
01:51:22,550 --> 01:51:20,340
it at the time and uh you know he he

2624
01:51:25,370 --> 01:51:22,560
went on to lead a very professional

2625
01:51:27,830 --> 01:51:25,380
career he never really sought publicity

2626
01:51:30,709 --> 01:51:27,840
uh with regard to the subject and he had

2627
01:51:32,330 --> 01:51:30,719
a normal life after that uh I know some

2628
01:51:34,070 --> 01:51:32,340
people are somewhat dismissive of the

2629
01:51:35,570 --> 01:51:34,080
account but as I said earlier Jimmy I

2630
01:51:38,930 --> 01:51:35,580
wasn't there so can I call the man a

2631
01:51:42,290 --> 01:51:38,940
liar no yeah and so uh which goes back

2632
01:51:45,530 --> 01:51:42,300
to The Landing part of this right those

2633
01:51:48,709 --> 01:51:45,540
four cases Travis Walden was an official

2634
01:51:50,390 --> 01:51:48,719
Landing but it came down right okay but

2635
01:51:52,370 --> 01:51:50,400
each one of those cases including

2636
01:51:54,350 --> 01:51:52,380
Virginia right

2637
01:51:57,229 --> 01:51:54,360
um each one of those cases had a craft

2638
01:51:59,990 --> 01:51:57,239
that was on the ground

2639
01:52:01,490 --> 01:52:00,000
absolutely yeah so I mean you know you

2640
01:52:03,410 --> 01:52:01,500
look at certain you know common

2641
01:52:05,750 --> 01:52:03,420
denominators like that and it makes you

2642
01:52:08,030 --> 01:52:05,760
kind of stand up and take notice

2643
01:52:09,229 --> 01:52:08,040
um it's it's extremely fascinating and

2644
01:52:11,270 --> 01:52:09,239
that you know again going through some

2645
01:52:14,390 --> 01:52:11,280
of the historical cases here you can

2646
01:52:17,930 --> 01:52:14,400
find other uh examples of that and um

2647
01:52:20,270 --> 01:52:17,940
it's the the variety the diversity and

2648
01:52:22,550 --> 01:52:20,280
the range of reports that we have dating

2649
01:52:24,470 --> 01:52:22,560
back decades

2650
01:52:27,169 --> 01:52:24,480
um I would argue there's not much that

2651
01:52:29,030 --> 01:52:27,179
you'll find today that's new going back

2652
01:52:33,290 --> 01:52:29,040
to your earlier comment

2653
01:52:35,330 --> 01:52:33,300
uh I'm gonna I want this from you

2654
01:52:37,070 --> 01:52:35,340
um as we close out another great

2655
01:52:38,450 --> 01:52:37,080
conversation David thank you so much my

2656
01:52:39,070 --> 01:52:38,460
friend sure

2657
01:52:41,689 --> 01:52:39,080
um

2658
01:52:44,629 --> 01:52:41,699
what's the one case man

2659
01:52:47,149 --> 01:52:44,639
I'm speaking on all of that material you

2660
01:52:50,030 --> 01:52:47,159
know I've got mine mine doesn't matter

2661
01:52:52,129 --> 01:52:50,040
you're you're my guest what's the one

2662
01:52:54,470 --> 01:52:52,139
case

2663
01:52:57,890 --> 01:52:54,480
that's a hard question it's like saying

2664
01:53:01,970 --> 01:52:59,229
child

2665
01:53:04,729 --> 01:53:01,980
but but what's the one case what's the

2666
01:53:07,669 --> 01:53:04,739
one case well I I don't know if it's my

2667
01:53:09,649 --> 01:53:07,679
the one case but for me personally it's

2668
01:53:11,450 --> 01:53:09,659
the one that I investigated back in 2000

2669
01:53:14,149 --> 01:53:11,460
which really was kind of an inspiration

2670
01:53:16,490 --> 01:53:14,159
for me writing the book where back in

2671
01:53:18,229 --> 01:53:16,500
Southern Illinois in 2000 January 5th we

2672
01:53:20,990 --> 01:53:18,239
had all those police officers that were

2673
01:53:24,350 --> 01:53:21,000
in radio contact with each other as they

2674
01:53:26,510 --> 01:53:24,360
were describing this triangular UFO and

2675
01:53:28,910 --> 01:53:26,520
I was just struck with it not just

2676
01:53:31,129 --> 01:53:28,920
because of the case itself Jimmy but as

2677
01:53:33,709 --> 01:53:31,139
you can appreciate sitting in the police

2678
01:53:36,950 --> 01:53:33,719
departments hearing the officers

2679
01:53:39,530 --> 01:53:36,960
describe this triangle the flight

2680
01:53:42,169 --> 01:53:39,540
characteristics the shape the lighting

2681
01:53:44,870 --> 01:53:42,179
configurations I could almost finish

2682
01:53:46,850 --> 01:53:44,880
their statements because it echoed what

2683
01:53:49,850 --> 01:53:46,860
the Jean darms the police officers in

2684
01:53:52,850 --> 01:53:49,860
Belgium 10 years prior had described and

2685
01:53:55,490 --> 01:53:52,860
these guys weren't into UFOs and I could

2686
01:53:57,109 --> 01:53:55,500
almost finish their sketch before they

2687
01:53:59,090 --> 01:53:57,119
finished it I knew exactly where they

2688
01:54:00,830 --> 01:53:59,100
were going with the sky sketch I knew

2689
01:54:01,910 --> 01:54:00,840
when they described how the object flew

2690
01:54:04,430 --> 01:54:01,920
that that's how they were going to

2691
01:54:07,250 --> 01:54:04,440
describe it and it was so interesting

2692
01:54:09,830 --> 01:54:07,260
because the night of November 29 1989

2693
01:54:12,290 --> 01:54:09,840
which launched that whole uh flap of

2694
01:54:13,910 --> 01:54:12,300
triangular UFO sightings in Belgium it

2695
01:54:16,070 --> 01:54:13,920
was very similar and even and Patrick

2696
01:54:17,689 --> 01:54:16,080
Farren who's one of these uh Belgian

2697
01:54:20,209 --> 01:54:17,699
investigators that headed up that whole

2698
01:54:22,609 --> 01:54:20,219
investigation with sobeps in Brussels

2699
01:54:23,750 --> 01:54:22,619
was here at my home several years ago he

2700
01:54:25,729 --> 01:54:23,760
was coming through the country and we

2701
01:54:27,109 --> 01:54:25,739
had a chance to compare notes and we

2702
01:54:31,910 --> 01:54:27,119
were struck with the similarities

2703
01:54:34,970 --> 01:54:31,920
between November 29 1989 in Belgium and

2704
01:54:36,950 --> 01:54:34,980
Southern Illinois January 5th 2000 so I

2705
01:54:38,570 --> 01:54:36,960
think that case for multiple reasons

2706
01:54:41,030 --> 01:54:38,580
like that is one that just personally

2707
01:54:43,430 --> 01:54:41,040
sticks out for me as just probably the

2708
01:54:45,530 --> 01:54:43,440
best case I've ever investigated and so

2709
01:54:47,930 --> 01:54:45,540
in that sense it it definitely ranks up

2710
01:54:49,910 --> 01:54:47,940
there pretty high for me when

2711
01:54:54,290 --> 01:54:49,920
um when I read about that case in your

2712
01:54:57,169 --> 01:54:54,300
book and I'm looking at uh that part of

2713
01:55:02,689 --> 01:54:57,179
Southern Illinois yeah and and the

2714
01:55:05,629 --> 01:55:02,699
tracking of of uh the triangle right you

2715
01:55:09,250 --> 01:55:05,639
can visualize all of this going down you

2716
01:55:10,810 --> 01:55:09,260
can see it it's it that is that is a

2717
01:55:13,910 --> 01:55:10,820
well-documented

2718
01:55:16,970 --> 01:55:13,920
uh sighting I mean you know it is you

2719
01:55:19,010 --> 01:55:16,980
know it's it's literally right it's not

2720
01:55:22,010 --> 01:55:19,020
often that you can almost with pinpoint

2721
01:55:25,430 --> 01:55:22,020
accuracy plot the flight cap of the UFO

2722
01:55:26,810 --> 01:55:25,440
but to your point because we knew the

2723
01:55:28,970 --> 01:55:26,820
locations where the officers were

2724
01:55:30,950 --> 01:55:28,980
standing they were in radio contact at

2725
01:55:33,229 --> 01:55:30,960
the time of the Sightings The Sinclair

2726
01:55:35,629 --> 01:55:33,239
County dispatch tapes were time stamped

2727
01:55:37,850 --> 01:55:35,639
so we know the exact times they were

2728
01:55:39,950 --> 01:55:37,860
there on the spot saying what they were

2729
01:55:41,629 --> 01:55:39,960
saying and as a result we were able to

2730
01:55:45,169 --> 01:55:41,639
kind of plot the entire flight pattern

2731
01:55:48,169 --> 01:55:45,179
of this object yeah tremendous yeah so I

2732
01:55:50,090 --> 01:55:48,179
I knew you were gonna you know I knew

2733
01:55:52,310 --> 01:55:50,100
that was your case I just wanted very

2734
01:55:54,590 --> 01:55:52,320
personal to me it's it's an awesome case

2735
01:55:56,930 --> 01:55:54,600
it's an awesome case yeah David Marler

2736
01:55:59,390 --> 01:55:56,940
what's next man what's going on we're

2737
01:56:00,950 --> 01:55:59,400
just moving forward 2023 we're going to

2738
01:56:03,229 --> 01:56:00,960
be really focusing on the National UFO

2739
01:56:05,030 --> 01:56:03,239
historical records Center like I said we

2740
01:56:07,550 --> 01:56:05,040
set it up as a non-profit organization

2741
01:56:09,649 --> 01:56:07,560
we're looking for donations to secure a

2742
01:56:11,750 --> 01:56:09,659
building to bring all of this UFO

2743
01:56:13,729 --> 01:56:11,760
history together Under One Roof and

2744
01:56:15,649 --> 01:56:13,739
we're going to start that process I'm

2745
01:56:17,629 --> 01:56:15,659
actually meeting with Business Leaders

2746
01:56:19,250 --> 01:56:17,639
later this week in Albuquerque I'll be

2747
01:56:21,830 --> 01:56:19,260
meeting with the Mayor of Rio Rancho

2748
01:56:23,570 --> 01:56:21,840
where I live uh next week next Wednesday

2749
01:56:25,250 --> 01:56:23,580
we have a meeting and I'll be meeting

2750
01:56:27,169 --> 01:56:25,260
with the State Rep here hopefully in the

2751
01:56:28,310 --> 01:56:27,179
next week or so as well so we're getting

2752
01:56:30,770 --> 01:56:28,320
business interest we're getting

2753
01:56:32,990 --> 01:56:30,780
politicians interest we want to create

2754
01:56:35,270 --> 01:56:33,000
the largest historical archive and bring

2755
01:56:37,310 --> 01:56:35,280
all this history together and create the

2756
01:56:39,109 --> 01:56:37,320
National Archives of ufology it'll be

2757
01:56:40,370 --> 01:56:39,119
the first of its kind on the scale ever

2758
01:56:43,430 --> 01:56:40,380
in the history of the United States

2759
01:56:48,410 --> 01:56:43,440
where can everybody get involved David

2760
01:56:50,689 --> 01:56:48,420
marlar ufo.com David Marler ufo.com is

2761
01:56:57,590 --> 01:56:50,699
my personal website our new organization

2762
01:57:01,550 --> 01:56:59,750
and we have a donation platform there

2763
01:57:03,050 --> 01:57:01,560
you can also learn about more about the

2764
01:57:05,450 --> 01:57:03,060
organization and the players that are

2765
01:57:06,709 --> 01:57:05,460
involved uh we're continuing to bring in

2766
01:57:08,990 --> 01:57:06,719
collections

2767
01:57:11,209 --> 01:57:09,000
um we just talked about two weeks ago

2768
01:57:15,169 --> 01:57:11,219
with a researcher in Washington state

2769
01:57:16,910 --> 01:57:15,179
who has longitudinal data regarding UFO

2770
01:57:18,410 --> 01:57:16,920
activity in and around the Yakima

2771
01:57:20,390 --> 01:57:18,420
Washington area and he's looking to

2772
01:57:23,270 --> 01:57:20,400
donate those files and that material to

2773
01:57:25,310 --> 01:57:23,280
us this is an organic thing Jimmy it's

2774
01:57:27,530 --> 01:57:25,320
not a static Library it's constantly

2775
01:57:30,050 --> 01:57:27,540
growing we're constantly receiving more

2776
01:57:31,609 --> 01:57:30,060
information more Case Files

2777
01:57:33,589 --> 01:57:31,619
um it's exciting to bring this together

2778
01:57:35,450 --> 01:57:33,599
and I will tell you having done lectures

2779
01:57:37,850 --> 01:57:35,460
here over the last 10 years on the UFO

2780
01:57:39,410 --> 01:57:37,860
subject at the end of my lectures on

2781
01:57:41,089 --> 01:57:39,420
more than several occasions I've had

2782
01:57:43,490 --> 01:57:41,099
people come up from Los Alamos and

2783
01:57:45,169 --> 01:57:43,500
Sandia National Laboratories scientists

2784
01:57:47,149 --> 01:57:45,179
from those organizations that were in

2785
01:57:49,129 --> 01:57:47,159
the audience listening to my UFO lecture

2786
01:57:51,709 --> 01:57:49,139
coming up and telling me you know what

2787
01:57:53,870 --> 01:57:51,719
we're very interested in the subject so

2788
01:57:55,669 --> 01:57:53,880
we want to bring that history here so

2789
01:57:58,669 --> 01:57:55,679
not just the general public but

2790
01:58:00,589 --> 01:57:58,679
scientists from these organizations can

2791
01:58:02,570 --> 01:58:00,599
feel comfortable coming to an

2792
01:58:03,709 --> 01:58:02,580
organization that is simply trying to

2793
01:58:05,629 --> 01:58:03,719
preserve the history and make it

2794
01:58:07,609 --> 01:58:05,639
available to researchers

2795
01:58:10,070 --> 01:58:07,619
Sandia that's where the bodies are

2796
01:58:16,790 --> 01:58:13,870
David Marlin thank you so much my friend

2797
01:58:19,189 --> 01:58:16,800
everything that you do

2798
01:58:22,669 --> 01:58:19,199
um it is a lot of work but we just need

2799
01:58:23,689 --> 01:58:22,679
to say thank you and on behalf of the

2800
01:58:26,270 --> 01:58:23,699
community

2801
01:58:27,890 --> 01:58:26,280
um my brother it's just and anybody

2802
01:58:30,530 --> 01:58:27,900
looking for history or historical

2803
01:58:32,390 --> 01:58:30,540
material I I feel requests all the time

2804
01:58:34,250 --> 01:58:32,400
for information so we're always happy to

2805
01:58:36,229 --> 01:58:34,260
share that information with researchers

2806
01:58:37,490 --> 01:58:36,239
or interested parties so I really

2807
01:58:39,290 --> 01:58:37,500
appreciate it and I appreciate your

2808
01:58:41,930 --> 01:58:39,300
audience Jimmy you're the best David

2809
01:58:44,570 --> 01:58:41,940
have a great night and keep running that

2810
01:58:46,189 --> 01:58:44,580
rock uphill I will I'll talk to you

2811
01:58:48,890 --> 01:58:46,199
thank you David all right take care

2812
01:58:50,990 --> 01:58:48,900
happy Holidays happy holidays to you

2813
01:58:53,270 --> 01:58:51,000
David Marler what a great conversation

2814
01:58:54,490 --> 01:58:53,280
tonight again you can just head straight

2815
01:58:57,229 --> 01:58:54,500
over

2816
01:58:58,609 --> 01:58:57,239
davidmarlerufo.com and get all of your

2817
01:59:01,490 --> 01:58:58,619
information that you need right there

2818
01:59:04,490 --> 01:59:01,500
and David's out there he's out there

2819
01:59:06,770 --> 01:59:04,500
social media all of that stuff all right

2820
01:59:08,870 --> 01:59:06,780
Fade to Black is produced by Hilton J

2821
01:59:11,930 --> 01:59:08,880
Palm Renee Dennis and Kevin webmaster is

2822
01:59:14,689 --> 01:59:11,940
Drew the geek music Doug Aldridge intro

2823
01:59:17,510 --> 01:59:14,699
space boys spaceboymusic.com this

2824
01:59:19,669 --> 01:59:17,520
broadcast is produced by kjcr for the

2825
01:59:21,950 --> 01:59:19,679
game changer Network it is owned and

2826
01:59:23,810 --> 01:59:21,960
copyrighted 2022 by Fade to Black and

2827
01:59:25,550 --> 01:59:23,820
The Game Changer Network Inc it cannot

2828
01:59:27,050 --> 01:59:25,560
be rebroadcast download or copy they

2829
01:59:29,149 --> 01:59:27,060
were used anywhere in the known universe

2830
01:59:30,709 --> 01:59:29,159
without written permission from Fade to

2831
01:59:34,070 --> 01:59:30,719
Black or the game change your network

2832
01:59:37,010 --> 01:59:34,080
tomorrow night Melinda Leslie is here

2833
01:59:40,669 --> 01:59:37,020
uh yeah so uh I'll see everybody

2834
01:59:45,240 --> 01:59:40,679
tomorrow night until then be safe

2835
02:00:28,680 --> 01:59:56,810
[Music]